I am a slow swimmer. No swimming background. I began lap swimming to train for tris 3 years ago. I have been to a couple of swimming clinics, I have the total immersion dvd. I have seen myself on video. My stroke does not look bad, I am just slow. My cruising speed is (and pretty much always has been) 2:00 per 100. I have been working for the past several months at getting that down. I have been focusing on doing 100 yd intervals as fast as I can maintain. This yields an average 100 of 1:45 over 10 to 15 intervals. That is only 4 minutes over an oly (IF I can maintain that pace for that long. The actual time savings is probably a lot less). And the energy expended seems significantly greater.
Where I am going with this is? I am thinking about accepting my 2:00 pace, spending minimal time in the pool (just enough to maintain) and concentrating on areas that I can improve.
I am conceding. I give up on the pipe dream of ever being a decent swimmer. Anyone care to talk me out of it?
My times are almost identical to yours. Sometimes I can get the cruising closer to 1:55 but not too often and certainly not lately. One time I actually did a 1:37 100 but that was with diving off the blocks.
I too only started to swim seriously 3 years ago. I’m tired of the coaches (I am part of a Masters group) telling me my stroke looks good - well it obviously doesn’t make me go through the water any faster. Then they try to tell me I’m slow because I run and bike too much.
Don’t know if I can “talk you out of it” other than saying I’m in the same boat. Some times it helps to know you’re not alone.
I have almost the same background as yourself. I think two things are gonna get me “over the hump”.
First I need to find a for real swim coach. Someone that can actually coach rather than just give suggestions. I’ve had several good swimmers, “coaches” and others look at my stroke and all of them have said “not to bad try this or that”. For some reason intuetively I know I’m missing one or two major keys. What those are I don’t know but I know I’m missing them. I’d hope a good coach could look at my stroke and say “Yep here’s your main limiting factor”
Next is lotsa swimming. Looking at what even “good” swimmers do as a “workout” compared to what I do is a bit frightening. I simply have to put in more yards, harder yards…then more yards.
I’m hoping that does it for me. If that doesn’t work…I’ll try something else.
I can sympathize with you 100%. I have a “great” stroke, nice and clean, blah-blah-blah. LIke gadgetgirl, I got tired of hearing about how good my form was. I have a lifetime of hiking, biking, running, etc. in me and you can guess where my strenghts are. I dropped swimming about eight months ago and am concentrating on setting a few new running PR’s this year. Duathalon is still a multisport;-)
I’ve been swimming more (than the zero I used to do), and feel like my “stroke” looks and works better than it used to, my balance and position is improved quite a bit, and yet my 100 times are pitiful.
The only thing I think I’ve gained is just being a little more comfortable in the water, so hopefully I can do a much larger portion of my races using actual freestyle, rather than a variety of other “strokes” so I can stop hyperventilating.
I actually blew off swimming entirely last week, and I’m damn glad I did. It was just getting to be way too much like work to go to the pool, again.
Thank GOD for wetsuits. I’m borrowing a full suit (in lieu of my sleeveless) for my next race, and I got to try it on in an Endless Pool - WOW. I was dramatically faster just by being higher in the water, and not having to struggle as much to breathe. The fish are right, it’s an unfair advantage for us rocks, but I ain’t giving mine up for nothing.
I enjoy bike and run training, even when it’s hard. I almost never enjoy swimming (at least not in a pool). I do this stuff for fun, and swimming poorly is NOT fun.
Another suggestion, which may or may not apply to you:
I get the impression that a lot of triathletes don’t apply sound training principles to swimming. Periodization applies to swimming just as well as to running and cycling, but it seems that a lot of people do the same workout month after month after month in the pool- either they just swim straight laps, or they do 100 yard intervals every day. Wrong.
I was on a ledge of sort for about 1.5 years. i got off it by swimming 5-6 times a week with a masters team and doing at 1650TT about every 2 weeks. i’m still getting stronger and improving. Really, it is about putting in the yardage i think.
BTW - i hated swimming while i was on “the ledge” i love it now, its probably my favorite discipline now.
you pegged me perfectly. I do basically the same thing. I swim three times per week. 200 yd warm up, 1500 yds or so of main set (100s, or sometimes 200s or sometimes 1500 straight, some bilateral breathing), and 200 cooldown. OK, let me have it. I have seen some of the swim workouts people post. Is this essentially the same as only running 2 miles three times a week, or only biking 10 miles three times a week?
My question is essentially, if I simply just swim more and swim more yards my same old slow way, I will one day be swimming 1:30s?
Leaving aside the basic technique stuff, what holds most triathletes back in the pool is that people without a competetive swimming background don’t understand how to do a swim workout and drastically underestimate how hard swimmers work to get faster. Swim training done right is not anything at all like what most triathletes do on the bike or running. Swim training is like what a track cyclist or miler would do. It is not like training for a marathon or a century. A decent swim workout is like a combination of a session in the weight room and running lots of 400 m and 200m intervals on a track with a few hard half mile or one mile runs thrown in. It hurts in an “I am definitely going to puke and there is no way I can lift my arms to dry my hair” kind of way. If you end your workout feeling like you do after steady 5 mile run, you’re not doing it right.
A big part of getting faster (along with technique improvements) is simply just making yourself go faster. If you can go 1:45 - go 1:44 on the next repeat. (A good coach will be one who corrects your stroke AND consistantly browbeats and humilates you into going that one second faster).
It really does come down to making yourself go a few seconds faster. Never settle. Over time, just consistantly pushing to your limit on each 100 repeat and trying to go just a little faster will lead to improvement.
If I had a kick board I’d throw it at you. Get off that wall and swim you lazy bastard!
I have had an epiphany of sorts after my last IM. My whole focus was getting in the distance, regardless of pace. My initial goal was to finish. Now that I have done that, I want to go faster. Therefore, I have to train faster.
In response to your question:
My question is essentially, if I simply just swim more and swim more yards my same old slow way, I will one day be swimming 1:30s?
The answer is NO. Swimming more yardage at the same pace will likely only allow you to swim farther, not faster. Get outside your comfort zone. Instead of 10x100 on 2:00, shoot for at least 3x100 on 1:45 (or as many as you can do at that pace. If you need to add 5 sec to the next 3, do that. Push yourself and you will be rewarded. Continue to swim slowly and you will continue to be able to swim slowly.
Get off the swimming ledge. I am getting off the bike and run ledge. Let’s make it hurt once in a while!
**if I simply just swim more and swim more yards my same old slow way, I will one day be swimming 1:30s? **
I doubt it. Or maybe, but it’ll take you about forever to improve that way.
First thing I’d think about is increasing the frequency of swim training. Maybe five days a week instead of three. If you can’t do it now without cutting into other essential training, keep it in mind next winter. You’re going to be cutting down on the outdoor time then, anyway, so you might as well take that time and invest it at the pool.
Is this essentially the same as only running 2 miles three times a week, or only biking 10 miles three times a week?
It’s not so much a distance thing, although putting in the yards is important, it’s that you’re doing the same workout all year long, basically. It’s like you’re doing nothing but trackwork, all the time.
The swim workouts that get posted here are usually fantastic, but I don’t remember ever seeing much about context- are they base workouts, build workouts, or what? For my money, you should structure your swimming just like you structure your running and biking. You should have a base period, and build periods. You should also build your training week the same as you do in other sports- include a long swim, some other key workout appropriate to the period you’re in, and a couple of recovery swims.
I am on the slow swim boat also, but I have noticed that as I get in better shape, I keep pushing myself to try to get faster. When I am swimming I make a conciuos effort for the feel of the pull on my stroke. As my endurance improves I try to continue to push (pull) harder and harder. I have not timed myself but I know that I am faster than last year. I think its all about the training and getting out of that confort zone, pushing yourself harder and harder! Ahh and switching your training regularly so you don’t get burned!
I’m also not a fast swimmer but have made reasonable improvement over the last few years. What helped me the most:
a swim instructor/coach watching you swim and telling you what you do wrong. I was told “I had a good stroke” too for maybe 50-150 yds which is what you get to swim in some clinics. Having an coach see my stroke at the end of swimming 5x400 and they don’t say the same thing.
swimming more frequently. 3x a week is good for maintaining what you have but 5-6x a week is way better. I think the biggest benefit is the muscle memory effect of swimming consectutive days. Shorter workouts more frequently then adding time to the workouts.
swimming longer intervals. Swimming hard effort 100’s with long recoveries was not as useful as 300’s on short recoveries and regular 1000yd tt’s.
"Instead of 10x100 on 2:00, shoot for at least 3x100 on 1:45 (or as many as you can do at that pace. "
his brought up an interesting question. Which is better picking a speed you can hold for “x” intervals holding that same pace. Or pushing hard and slowly letting the time creep up.
For instance say you’re doing repeats on 1:45. You can do 2-3 at that on 2:00. Then it’s 1:47,1:50,1:53…etc. Is that better than 10 x 1:50 on 2:00. Or is it better to go as hard as you can dn give yourself “x” rest.
In my first years of competition, I got used to finishing the swim in the last 25%. One winter I joined a club and devoted the whole offseason to swimming. Hardcore swimmers will laugh, but at the time I hit the pool every day and swam for 15-20 minutes and thought that was substantial training. Over a few years time, I am a faster swimmer by 25 seconds per 100 meters. I’m not fast now, but a whole lot faster than I used to be. A 30 minute workout feels like the old 15 minute one did. My added speed came from a number of small tweaks that all felt foreign and counterintuitive when I first attempted them. Dare to experiment! Practise swimming fast for small bursts. Try to exagerrate certain things. It can’t really hurt…occasionally you find easy speed and free power from trying new things. And the funny thing is, the faster you swim, the easier swimming becomes. As you ride higher in the water, breathing is no longer a chore. I’m not even sure if one’s form is smoother because they are able to travel faster or if they swim faster because of improved form. I’m quite awkward when I swim at my old pace of 3 years ago.
It hurts in an “I am definitely going to puke and there is no way I can lift my arms to dry my hair” kind of way. If you end your workout feeling like you do after steady 5 mile run, you’re not doing it right.
No way would I have actually made it to the hairdryer stage back in the fish days. Getting my hair washed would be painful enough. Fortunately, coach let us walk out of the pool with damp hair if we’d cover it with those dorky knit caps instead.
The nice thing is that once you pay the price and get to a certain point in the water, you can rely on muscle memory and technique that works for you to always get you back to a certain base competence level even as you bellyache about “how slow I am now” compared to the old days.
The other point with this is that the better you get, the more yardage you can do, so the fitter you get, too.
If you are struggling to hold 2min 100s, then you will only do 2.5/3.0 ks per hour. But if you can improve to 1:45 easily, then you up the yardage for the same time in the water.
I feel that I’m somewhere between a “steady 5 mile run” and “I can’t lift my arms”. I’m definately getting out of the water with very fatigued arms. My problem seems to be that as I approach that “I can’t move my arms stage” it seems my arms simply lose all strength. No matter how I “Will my arms” to pull harder they simply won’t go. My times start climbing like a rocket ship.
If I spend a couple minutes recovering I can hit it hard again but I end up in that “fatigued” state quicker then when I was fresh and the times take off again.
Most of my “hard” workouts leave my arms and back sore like my legs get after a race, but even directly after those workouts my arms weren’t “I can’t dry my hair” tired.
In fact the only time I’ve ever gotten to that “I can’t lift my arms or move my legs” feeling is during weight lifting sessions.
Question is do I need to push harder, if so how? or am I on the right track.
