T100 Triathlon World Tour (PTO 2024)

Triathlon Forum
341

Because current non-draft dyanmics suck ass for both the officials and athletes to properly regulate (no duh this is an sport raced on miles of roads with handful of officlals, no shit the officiating suck). So again until that can be improved, I’m of the mindset, make it easier on everyone…less rules the better. You can’t have 50 athletes coming out of the water within 1 min of each other and then expect them to go non-draft. That just doesn’t work. Full stop. There’s no amount of “they should swim faster” or they just should is going to make that a valid solution. That’s the whole reason why non-draft becaome DL (ITU was non-draft for years prior to going to DL and they went to DL because it was too difficult to manage with results at the conclusion of the contest…this isn’t my opinion, this is what was actually happening; it’s as if we forget, we tried non-draft…it didn’t work)…They were taking 6 hours after the events to actual name the winner because of 8 protests because racer X got an drafting penalty but racer Y who was also drafting didnt.

And your not going to have current WTCS urban courses with a bunch of guys racing non-draft. So then your talking about a likely HUGE lose of revenue for WT. Why the hell do all these cities force shitty urban boring ass courses? Because to host these events now, it costs upwards of $2mi for the host city, so yeah they are going to highlight their “city”, course dynamics be damned.

342

Here’s the rule:
Article 3.1 from here: https://www.triathlon.org/...ia_2024_20240219.pdf

National Federations may include athletes in the waiting list at any moment.

It’s up to the NFs to put athletes on the waiting list. Only after the NF/NGB populates a waiting list are those athletes then sorted by the criteria built between PTO and World Triathlon. So if you’re someone who might not be best friends with the NGB…you may not ever wind up on a waiting list, even if you might otherwise be considered “deserving.”

Moritz Events continues to just make mistake after mistake.

343

Here’s the rule:
Article 3.1 from here: https://www.triathlon.org/...ia_2024_20240219.pdf

National Federations may include athletes in the waiting list at any moment.

It’s up to the NFs to put athletes on the waiting list. Only after the NF/NGB populates a waiting list are those athletes then sorted by the criteria built between PTO and World Triathlon. So if you’re someone who might not be best friends with the NGB…you may not ever wind up on a waiting list, even if you might otherwise be considered “deserving.”

Moritz Events continues to just make mistake after mistake.

I guess it depends on a few things in terms of credibility it obviously helps to be an official world champs serious race.
While it adds a lot more silly politics.
So I guess it’s easy to see why they went this way and it’s not they got caught out in this, it was a calculated decision.
They knew they are not a natural match.

344

Here’s the rule: Article 3.1 from here: https://www.triathlon.org/...ia_2024_20240219.pdf
National Federations may include athletes in the waiting list at any moment.

It’s up to the NFs to put athletes on the waiting list. Only after the NF/NGB populates a waiting list are those athletes then sorted by the criteria built between PTO and World Triathlon. So if you’re someone who might not be best friends with the NGB…you may not ever wind up on a waiting list, even if you might otherwise be considered "deserving."I’ve suggested the rules lack both coherence and clarity and what matters is how the PTO and World Tri are actually managing this. I hope this is going to get visibility. The startlist and wait list criteria for the SC races is clear and seems both understood and workable.
I appreciate Article 3.1 (above) but this is for the waiting list which I’ve suggested upthread will never come into play. The rules make a clear distinction between “Invitation Athletes (Wildcards)” and “Waiting List” athletes.
“2.4. Any non-utilized slots at events will be allocated based on procedures under point 3 , and include Invitation Athletes (Wildcards) and Waiting List Athletes.”
So the process is first to fill any unfilled slots (ie not taken by contracted athletes) with Invitation Athletes (Wildcards).
How are those invitations arrived at?
“3.10. . . . after creation of the start lists, invitations (Wildcards) are awarded by a panel composed by PTO and World Triathlon.”
We never get to: “3.11. The start positions not filled by the invitation panel are filled by the next eligible athlete on the sorted Waiting List.” because the invitation panel will fill all the slots (the 8 missing in WPro for Miami and (probably) Singapore will be the largest number. After that the only sizeable ‘gap’ will be MPro in Las Vegas (a week before Kona).
So is it the Lemieux / PTN case that World Tri, in the invitation panel process, are effecting on NGB vetos on specific athletes?

345

Are the “wildcards” the what 8 or so athletes they mentioned after the contracted athletes? The AB and Gomez’s, or is that something that can change each week?

Amelia WatkinsonNZLLucy ByramGBRTaylor SpiveyUSAFlora DuffyBER
Rico BogenGERAlistair BrownleeGBRMartin Van RielBELJavier GomezESP
Would it not seem like they’ll easily have to use wait list athletes? There’s not a chance the same 20 athletes race the full races are they?

346

Are the “wildcards” the what 8 or so athletes they mentioned after the contracted athletes? The AB and Gomez’s, or is that something that can change each week?
AB and Gomez are Hot Shots with contacts. Wildcards are the fillers at each race who are not contracted for the whole series.

347

So what’s the difference again between an “wildcard” and a wait list athlete?

If wildcard is the list they can use to keep the NF’s out of it, is everyone suddenly going to be a “wildcard” entry who isn’t among the 20 contracted athletes (per gender)?

Essentially pto reaches out to athlete for a “wildcard” entry until the field is filled and thus no need for NGB’s to get in the way? I assume that’s the “runaround”, so there basically will never be a wait list for any race because they won’t need to utilize it?

Being a WT pathway, one advantage is that the officiating should improve and not just turn a blind eye during the “exhibition” racing that was the races prior; IE the Frodo “assist” reasoning, etc.

348

So what’s the difference again between an “wildcard” and a wait list athlete?

If wildcard is the list they can use to keep the NF’s out of it, is everyone suddenly going to be a “wildcard” entry who isn’t among the 20 contracted athletes (per gender)?

Essentially pto reaches out to athlete for a “wildcard” entry until the field is filled and thus no need for NGB’s to get in the way? I assume that’s the “runaround”, so there basically will never be a wait list for any race because they won’t need to utilize it?
2.4. Any non-utilized slots at events will be allocated Invitation Athletes (Wildcards) and Waiting List Athletes.
3.10. . . . after creation of the start lists, **invitations (Wildcards) **are awarded by a panel composed by PTO and World Triathlon.
3.11. The start positions not filled by the invitation panel are filled by the next eligible athlete on the sorted Waiting List. (the one with athletes nominated by NGBs - see #3.1.)

For difference, see above. I have suggested that the ‘waiting list’ will never come into play (so your last paragraph: yes; well that’s how I read these rules and the PTO’s wildcard invitation criteria (shared upthread).
The whole waiting list stuff is just shoddy copy and paste (from short course appendices) drafting by careless bods in WorldTri and PTO.
My draft revision of Appendix V deletes the irrelevant section 3 to finish off:

2.4. Any non-utilized slots at events will be allocated to Invitation Athletes (Wildcards).
2.5. Invitations (Wildcards) are awarded by a panel composed by PTO and World Triathlon (and then write in the criteria below).

About T100 Triathlon World Tour Wildcards
https://protriathletes.org/...st-t100-womens-race/

There are four main categories of athletes who will be considered for a wildcard selection:
Current well performing athletes, who have had great performances outside of the ***T100 Tour ***and have moved up the PTO World Rankings.Athletes whose rankings, because of injury, maternity or other reasons, do not accurately reflect the quality of their historical performances and who have demonstrated that they are capable of being in-form for the event.Up and coming athletes who have shown the ability to be competitive with the qualifying field, but have not yet had the opportunity to establish a sufficiently high ranking to be an automatic qualifier.Short course athletes who have a sufficiently high World Triathlon ranking so as to expect that they would be competitive in the event.

349

Are the “wildcards” the what 8 or so athletes they mentioned after the contracted athletes? The AB and Gomez’s, or is that something that can change each week?
AB and Gomez are Hot Shots with contacts. Wildcards are the fillers at each race who are not contracted for the whole series.

“old busted joints” with contracts.

350

Imogen Simmonds pulls out the weekend before.
Interesting to see who they get to fill it.

Cutting it close for someone to commit to travel, etc. No?

351

Imogen Simmonds pulls out the weekend before.
Interesting to see who they get to fill it.

Cutting it close for someone to commit to travel, etc. No?I think I’ve read somewhere that once they publish the start list, they’ll not backfill. Maybe the ‘waiting list’ comes into play after all? Who would USAT nominate?
There are already several USA athletes in the 8 wildcard invites (Chura, Hering).
One assumes that going down the ranking list the PTO have invited and been refused all those above Kivioja and Diedericks (#48 and #49). Sanchez got an invite after her win in Pucon and Stimpson is a top performer and won Challenge Miami in 22. Maybe Ecuadorean Bravo after her Salinas win and second to Sanchez at Pucon.
Byram won in 2023 and after Haug and LCB has to be one of the favourites next Saturday (see her Milwaukee breakthrough).

352

Will suck of they dont fill it, by race day there is a reasonably high probability to be another have to withdraw due to last minute illness. It is also likely someone will start to fulfill contract but withdraw after start, ultimately blocking another wildcard starter.

353

I disagree with most of what is below. The short course draft legal racing can be amazing - BUT you need courses that showcase the athletes abilities.

Take a look at Alistar Brownlee launching an attack up a mountain a few years ago in a WTS series race where he destroyed everyone and broke away. You simply cannot get that with the current 16 U-turn boring courses that dont allow breakaways in todays short course world.

I’m a mid 50’s Age Grouper and in the past 5 years have done quite a bit of short course racing when and where available and it simply does not compare to non-draft racing. SO intense from the gun and so much drama and decision making.

I love non-draft as well but the SC drafting racing is not dead at all. It’s tactical, spirited, fun and demanding.

Watching it is great fun - Super League is great.

We just need better course for the ITU stuff.

** If the broadcast and racing is kickass, that’s all that’s going to matter; no one is going to care that it’s an PTO awarded championship or an WT sponsored championship (see SLT; no one cares that it’s their own product; it’s the best short course racing in the world). **

The way I see it, SC racing has a huge problem. It is without a doubt where the strongest athletes in the sport compete. So it is incredible that WT cannot design races that attract crowds and get real coverage beyond a bunch of us and the parents and significant others of the athletes competing. Can anyone think of another sport that requires their best athletes to literally drop down from the top tier races and smash a bunch of second-fourth tier athletes to get a bit more exposure? (no disrespect to 70.3/LC folks, but let’s be realistic.) Most AGers wouldn’t know who Iden and Blu were if they hadn’t spend a few seasons destroying the IM folks.

The issue is the drafting. As Stapley has said, you can push 450-500 W at the front trying to make a breakaway but with so much horsepower lurking behind, it hardly goes anywhere as the likes of Blu, Wilde will pull hard and keep things together. This also affects the swim, weaker swimmers can red line a bit too much and recover in the pack while the strongest swimmers have little motivation to drill it and create gaps as it will come together on the bike. This makes the race boring and does not make the athletes justice for a hard bike ride.

The idea of letting folks draft was to make it more attractive crowds…it’s not working.
I know I sound like a broken record…but the drafting has to go. Policing the race would be a bit trickier but if it can be done as it is done in Daytona…it can be done in any other 3 km circuit. It is not perfect, but I would argue that there would be more folks drafting in the third pack of any 70.3 race.

We need to unify the sport and not continue making different racing formats. This seems to be the model behind T100.

354

Not necessarily to Brooks, just broadcast related.

Watched F1 Bahrain kick off this weekend. I don’t watch a lot of Formula 1. Verstappen is great - but it’s boring. Honestly - he was so far ahead they really could have made it boring AF. I would LOVE to know how much they actually showed Max, instead it was big battles, pit things, who was battling at the back. Verstappen won by 3.5 days but honestly - it was how things went in the rest of the race that kept my attention. Hopefully we don’t just get 100 minutes of the person at the front and really get a feel for the battles going on during the broadcast - but F1 gave me a huge lesson this weekend.

355

That dude is killing it in F1 that all the socials are showing just how big his leads have been in various races…13s or 16s type of lead in a moto race is as you put it “days” ahead. I think with the racers and dynamics that it’s going to sorta be the standard broadcast of 75% front group, 15% “chasers” and 10% in race “interviews” that they normally have been doing.

I’m not a huge F1 viewer, but I’d be curious if the years when it was MV vs Hamilton racing each other hard, lap after lap, race after race, how much they cared about the battle for 13th place, so I think it’s all a bit relative to, MV destroying the comp is a terrible tv product currently…he’s that good.

356

While trying to disagree with me, you actually proved my point.

The race you are talking was not “a few years ago”, it happened 10 years ago and featured an 11 km mountain pass climb in the Austrian Alps in Kitzbuhel. You remember the race because the bike section was exciting as gaps were created…as the geography took care of the drafting ;-). How many WT venues are around 11 km mountain passes? How many SC races since then had so many gaps on the bike?

I raced juniors and a bit of u23, so I am familiar with draft legal racing. I also did a few AG draft races in my early 30s (was out of the sport in my 20s due to my career). No disrespect to your AG races, but you have no idea whatsoever how good the top guys are. Not even close to any draft legal AG race intensity. Hence, a “hard course” as you imagine it… unless it features an alpine pass, will not be enough to separate these guys consistently.

357

Imogen Simmonds pulls out the weekend before.
Interesting to see who they get to fill it.

Cutting it close for someone to commit to travel, etc. No?

She give a reason?

358

Imogen Simmonds pulls out the weekend before.
Interesting to see who they get to fill it.

Cutting it close for someone to commit to travel, etc. No?

She give a reason?

Rolled her ankle

359

The solution is going to end up being sprint and super sprint formats. WT already asked for 3 additional races for Paris and it got turned down. But when a sport governing body wants to change it’s format, it’s almost assured to get changed. By 2028 or Aussie '32, the olympic format is going to almost assuredly be super sprint prelim/finals w/ potential sprint distance final or even SS distance for all the races. In that type of distance, even a small gap is “exciting”, so then it truly will become 20-30 min exciting racing over and over.

That’s going to be the solution to the current WTCS issue (again we already race as many sprints as olympics these days).

360

The solution is going to end up being sprint and super sprint formats. WT already asked for 3 additional races for Paris and it got turned down. But when a sport governing body wants to change it’s format, it’s almost assured to get changed. By 2028 or Aussie '32, the olympic format is going to almost assuredly be super sprint prelim/finals w/ potential sprint distance final or even SS distance for all the races. In that type of distance, even a small gap is “exciting”, so then it truly will become 20-30 min exciting racing over and over.

That’s going to be the solution to the current WTCS issue (again we already race as many sprints as olympics these days).Off topic, but I can see two half field (28 athletes) super sprint ‘heats’ (The OG (tri)athlete limit will not shift (stay at 110, 55+55).) And then a sprint final the following day. And the MTR the following w/e.
From an athletic PoV this would significantly reduce triathlon’s ‘endurance’ aspect. It would also align the distances better for the MTR.
From a TV time PoV this’d be about the same as a single standard distance race and offer a longer narrative. Reduction in ‘air time’ was, iirc, a downside Gemmell highlighted in an interview when addressing simply going to sprint distance for the Olympics (and by implication everything else ‘short course’/drafting.
Such a move will switch attention to long course triathlon even more and the T100 Tour is set to benefit and offer proper (over an hour) endurance athletes an opportunity to excel.