T1 Tres Wetsuit ... slower?

Per Des Soto sight, “The TRES (pronounced like “dress”, but with a T) Pullover, Bibjohn and Vest are made of Yamamoto #38 SCS™ Super Composite Skin Rubber. This rubber is Yamamoto’s next-to-the-best. It exhibits the same characteristics as the rubber used in the T1 Original, but just a slight bit heavier, which means it is not quite as fast in the water. The addition of the SCS now makes TRES as easy to remove as the T1 Original.”

When I read this description of the new T1 Tres, I seem to have a bit confused.

In particular, "(the claim is)…it exhibits the same characteristics as the rubber used in the T1 original, but is a slight bit heavier, which means it is not quite as fast in the water. Then in the next sentence, “The addition of the SCS now make TRES is as easy to remove as the T1 original.”

My first thought is, …how can something heavy make it slower unless it was thicker and thus less flexible? On the other hand, it’s as easy to remove as the T1 original. To be easy to remove wouldn’t it have to be the same flexibility as the original as T1? And, thickness (in and of itself) would not make it slower (unless the intent was to say, it was more dense (i.e., contains less space/air pockets) and therefore less bouyant? Now, less bouyancy and the resulting increased water resistance could make your swim slower. But, so could less flexibility (or both). And from how I see it, less flexibility would mean it’s harder to get off than T1 - and, not the same as claimed.

There seems to be a conflict, poor choice of words or I’m missing something. Perhaps it’s a marketing approach to avoid certain words or just my over interpretation of what they wrote (or meant to write). But, I would be interested if anyone can explain what I’m missing? The last time I looked, “weight” (of itself) in water makes very little difference with regard to speed - unlike resistance. Ultimately, this would mean it can’t show the same characteristics.

FWIW Joe Moya

“how can something heavy make it slower unless it was thicker and thus less flexible? On the other hand, it’s as easy to remove as the T1 original.”

the thing that made the DOS a bit more difficult to remove wasn’t the lack of flexibility in its rubber. it was the friction–the stickiness–of the rubber when sliding (or attempting to slide) against itself during the removal of the top.

in other words, imagine taking off a sweatshirt. the bottom pulls over the top, and the fabric rubs against itself during the process. the rubber on the tres is equally as slick as on the T1, so it slides against itself during the suit’s removal.

it won’t be difficult getting the suit off. however, the T1, because of a GREAT deal of stretch in the rubber, will be able to fit over people who’re finding a good fit impossible for whatever reason. when i was at QR and we first introduced yamamoto’s #39 SCS rubber, back in the early 90s, it was AMAZING who we could wrap that rubber around. we could’ve fit jackie gleason in a wetsuit.

there won’t be very much difference between the two suits. sort of like ultegra and dura ace. it would take a keen eye to tell the suits apart.

. it would take a keen eye to tell the suits apart.

since the T1 is coming in silver adn the tres comes in black I agree it would take a keen eye to tell the suits apart…
Also the big yello tres would help tell things apart as well

; ) (somebody had to say it)

OK… so the missing element is friction. But, how does that make it slower in the water? Unless there is a bouyancy difference or it is less flexible (which you say it isn’t), the noticeable difference between the two suits would be minimal.

JOe Moya

I don’t knwo about the boyancy differences, but I would think that they would be minimal… having said that It would be very bad marketing practices to say that the tres, which is half the price as teh T1 is just as fast… If you are trying to sell the more expensive wetsuit you had better make the case that it is better in every way… ( I personally have a dos)

the TRES is going to be a slight bit heavier, so you’ll float a slight bit less. it’s also going to be slightly less stretchy. the differences are small enough that the average person wouldn’t notice a difference. but i would.

the cost difference is $284 v $384. so it’s not THAT much different. it’s an appropriate amount different. i go back to ultegra v DA. but with one difference. in the component category, DA will outlast ultegra. not so in this case. both wetsuits will last an equivalent amount of time, and that’ll be quite awhile.

i don’t think the suits were priced according to margin. they were priced strategically, so that one would not represent a different value than the other. i suspect it’s the same with shimano.

I have been in the market for a new wetsuit and decided a while back that it would be a Desoto if it fit well. Yesterday I decided that today was the day. I just got back from the Desoto shop where I bought a new Tres. To this rather novice appraiser of wetsuit rubber, let me say that I find the Tres a big improvement (in terms of rubber) over the Dos. (They have all three in the shop.) The Tres rubber is much closer in texture/feel to the T1 than the Dos and is impressively stretchy. It also has that nice smooth talc-like exterior that slides off really well. The exterior of the Dos rubber is like my QR suit and feels much tackier. (As in grippy, not as in Ocean City, MD) As Dan mentioned, the T1 rubber does strech more than the Tres. Even I noticed that by tugging on the cuff of each of them. I was very suprised by how comfy the suits are and how easy they are to take off. The T1 may be a bit faster, but I’m really excited about the Tres and am looking forward to using it this year. Oh yeah, it was also 100 clams cheaper. I’m not sure I’d be able to tell the difference once in the water.