I have a QR hydrojohn, the sleeveless wetsuit. I got it for $100 last year and it works great. However, I’m a horrible swimmer(which means I swim like a tug boat) and was thinking possibly throwing a Desoto T1 full sleeve top over the QR. Would it work? I don’t care if I look stupid. If so, should I go up a size? I’m 5’11 220 lbs, former shotputter, javelin thrower and pretty muscular. That is the reason I bought sleeveless, all the full wetsuits I tried were real tight and did not seem to fit my body for one reason or the other so I went sleeveless. I’m thinking the two pieces might work if they can function together. Any insight, suggestions?
The beauty of Desoto is that you can give it a try to see if it works. Give them a call to talk it over, they seem very knowledgeable. (My thought is that the doubling up the thickness on your torso might throw off your balance.) They will call you anyway to confirm your sizing, so no worry there.
It wouldn’t be legal since the combined thickness would be greater than 5mm. Maybe you could try a T1 bottom too.
DeSoto is probably a good option. ProMotion out of Hood River, Oregon, also has tops designed to fit over sleeveless suits: Check those out too … Personally, I would only worry about if its illegal if you were a decent swimmer and/or you are entered in big races.
Try Desoto. I love the fit of mine. Desoto is the only brand that has fit. I am about 59.75 inches and race between 112 - 120 pounds. On most suits, I wear a x-small to small due to height, but small to medium due to weight or size of my butt and quads. I have big quads and bubble butt with small waist. All other wetsuits are too long waisted and leave this air gap at the curve of my back. I have the T1 bibs and long top and also purchased the First Wave vest.
I’m not a good swimmer, usually bottom 50% (I can bike and Run) and I feel so much faster in the T1. The material is flexible in T1 so it will stretch some. I have the 2007 and bought my husband the 2008 which seems even more pilable. I have an older sleeveless QR that does not fit near as wear and is not as fast and seems so stiff compared to Desoto.
Desoto has great customer service, too.
Do you happen to know if the price difference between the first wave and the black pearl is worth spending? I am about ready to make a decision and don’t really want to spend the extra money, but am a crappy swimmer and can use all the help I can get. It seems like alot of extra money, appox. $130 t essentially get Yamamoto #39 instead of #38.
I am a crappy swimmer and opted for the black pearl. Works just fine for me. In the greater scheme of things, even if the first wave saved me 5 minutes in a 1500 swim, I would still be at best MOP. Until I become a better swimmer, spending extra coin on toys is not all that important.
I am in the same boat as you, I will be MOP at best. I however, think that I am willing to fork the extra money, if I knew it would save me an additional 10 minutes in the 2.4 Mile swim.
I recently purchased the DeSoto T1. I haven’t tried it yet as I live in the Great White North but corresponded with DeSoto with the exact same question you had: Black Pearl vs. First Wave, what’s the advantage. Here is what Chuck from DeSoto replied:
“The most notable differences between the Black Pearl and First Wave are
flexibility and buoyancy or weight. As you know, every major wetsuit
manufacturer offers a high end suit with variations (ie. full or
sleeveless) and a price point suit with the same variations. The
difference between their high end suit and price point suit is that the
high end suit is made of Yamamoto #39 rubber, and the price point suit
is made of Yamamoto #38 rubber (nearly all manufacturers use Yamamoto).
#39 is softer and more flexible. It also has a bigger closed-cell
component, so it contains more air, so it is lighter in weight and more
buoyant. If Yamamoto #38 has an advantage it is probably that it might
be a little more durable.
I race in both, and I have no problem with either. My longest swim in
the Black Pearl is olympic distance, and it was fine. I do not think I
would risk racing in the Black Pearl at Ironman distance, purely because
of the flexibility issue and the eventual cumulative lesser range of
motion in the shoulders compared to the First Wave. The beauty of T1’s
two-piece design, is that there is minimal shoulder restraint anyway,
since the top and bottom of the suit are not connected as in one-piece
designs, so you do not have that pulling-down effect from the lower half
of the suit.
The drop off from the First Wave to the Black Pearl is somewhat
subjective. I would compare it to the drop off between Dura Ace and
Ultegra…very minimal, given the fact that “minimal” is a relative term.
I’m sure I’ve bored you with my ramblings, and forgive me if this is
information is elementary to you. Hopefully it will prove to be somewhat
helpful in making your decision. Please let me know if I can answer any
further questions.”
Hope this helps. If your wondering I chose the T1 largely on recommendations of this forum and correspondence with DeSoto.
Andrew (Former lurker)
Thanks for the post it was very informative. I really like the fact that it is more flexible and this will probably be my choice in suits. I usually do go with ultegra over dura ace though.
If you can afford the extra money, go for the First Wave. It weighs less, more pilable, thicker, and feels better. I think I posted incorrectly, but I have the First Wave Bibs and long top and the Black Pearl Vest. At the time of purchase, I had a sponsorship that save me 40% with Desoto - so I purchased lots. The 400 mile bike shorts are great and the 2008 models are even better.
In my old wetsuit, I am faster(which is not very fast) and float. In the First Wave, I feel like a swimmer gliding in the water. I’m still not fast, but the First Wave probalby take 2 minutes of my old wetsuit time in a 1500 swim. My legs just float on the water with no effort. I really like the fit and comfort. It also comes off well. My friend can swim and she even feel quicker in the First Wave than her old wetsuit.
If you don’t like, Desoto has a great return policy and great service.
Their ITU trisuits look like they are pretty impressive also. I wish it had a few pockets on it though, as it has the 400 mile pad and would be great for the IM distance.
Last year I had the same question. I rented a black pearl from wetsuitrentals.com - I had always wanted to try one. I loved it - way more comfortable than my QR. The one I got was brand new - still had the tags on it - they told me that I could keep the one I had for $200 (including tax). I contacted DSS and got Emilio. I was willing to spend the extra money for the first wave if would be a better choice and needed some help. He said if I could get a new black pearl for that price, then I should buy it - that unless I was a great swimmer, I wouldn’t notice much difference. I think he gave me good advice.
My body proportions make a one piece suit less than optimal for a good fit - that’s the draw of the two piece for me. THe other nice thing is that you can go with the speedtube bottom rather than the john, and wear them alone if it’s too warm for you. Nice to have options.
I too was/is a MOP swimmer. I had an old Blue Seventy sleeveless (bottom of line suit). When I talked to Emilio, he said I should go with the Black Pearl and wouldn’t notice much of a difference (I think that was his nice way of telling me I was too slow to notice the difference), but he did explain the advantages mentioned above for the First Wave. When i finally did pull the trigger, I decided to go with the First Wave top (new) and was going to go with the Black Pearl bottoms. When talking to someone at DeSoto, I asked if they had any returns in the First Wave Bibs. They did and I can’t remember what I paid to be honest, but it was a good deal and was in line with (can’t remember if it was slightly more or slightly less) than new Black Pearl bibs. I went with the used First Wave bibs and couldn’t have been happier with my A race in IMLP. I finished 15 minutes ahead of what I projected I would finish based on my pool time intervals. The other cool thing was when the wetsuit strippers pulled my bibs off, the ripped the one strap. I had a race two weeks out from then and shipped it to DeSoto from LP and it was returned to me within a week with the bib repaired.
On another note, I also bought the 100 mile bike shorts and can’t say enough about them!
SJ