I am not able to pull right when I swim. I was told by somebody that my arms are pulling way out wider. How exactly is the pull done? I am just not able to get it right.
Something that helped me a bunch http://www.virtual-swim.com/3d_mv/top_btn/free/2000wc_1500/2000wc_1500_q.html.
chris
Go to youtube and watch Phelps/Thorpe/Hackett all swim…focus on one aspect of the stroke at a time (i.e. how the hand enters the water, elbow position at different spots…).
You’ll notice that that all have great reach. They flex their elbows a ton - keep their hand in line with the shoulder/under the body. They all also have monster kicks.
Regarding your pull going wide - were you taught an “s-haped pull?” Maybe you are overdoing it but your hand should be beneath your body the entire time. You can do 1 arm drills and focus on 1 at a time - or catch-up (focusing on the pull of 1 side at a time). You can swim freestyle on land and practice the pull…
Dave
so the pull is in line with the shoulder and never crossing the midline? No “S” shape?
so the pull is in line with the shoulder and never crossing the midline? No “S” shape?
You want to maximize the force pointed in the opposite direction you wish to go. You do this by establishing an early high elbow (thus maximizing the surface area of your forearm perpendicular to your intended direction) and pulling straight back. You roll (in part) to employ the appropriate muscles at the appropriate time to do all the above. Any deviation from straight back reduces the drag thrust.
Some people pull under their body, some in line with their shoulder, others outside. The key is to do it straight and with the right muscles engaged.
Apparently, this “S-shape” is part of the finer art of swimming.
For me as a cyclist/runner turned tri geek, I have not mastered this art.
However, you mention that the hand should be below the body?
Can you please clarify the relationship of the hand to the midline?
Thanks!
During the pull phase the hand should not cross the body’s imaginary midline. Remember, everything is connected so if you swing your arms out wide the rest of your body must follow. If you cross the midline you’re body must follow. Now you look like a snake going through the water.
A simple drill is to swim with a kickboard. Your hands should hit the edge of the kickboard upon entry. After the pull phase brush your hip with your thumb, “pull your hand of your pants’ pocket” (elbow comes out of the water first), & then high elbow as arm goes straight ahead.
I’s recommend some slow motion video on youtube - watch the hand. I thought Phelps had more of a very shallow S while the Aussies were more straight pull. I think the “S-shaped” pull was more emphasized in the 1980’s when I swam and is now less in favor…you’d have to ask people more in the “current” know than I though. Watching the video is pretty striking how bent their elbows are and how close they keep their hand to their body. I’m still trying to learn more so take all I say with a grain of salt.
In my opinion - it seems like the right hand enters at shoulder width with the body flat on the water - then you roll your body about 30-40 degrees to the left as you drop your right shoulder and extend the right hand straight out. The hand at this point is in line with the shoulder which is low in the water - this puts the hand just outside of midline. The hand pretty much tracks straight back just outside of midline. As the hand passes under your eyes - your left hand should be just about to enter the water and again your body should be flat - your elbow should be flexed at 90 degrees and your elbow should be close to the surface of the water and your hand should be relatively close to the body. During the 2nd half of the pull - you are rolling to the left - your hand may approach your belly button then passes near your speedo line as it exits the water. All in all, the body rolls as your swim but the hand seems to track a relatively straight line just outside of midline. I don’t think you want your hand to ever go outside of shoulder line or cross midline.
Anybody - feel free to correct any of the above if its wrong.
Dave
The current school of thought is no “S” pull. I haven’t heard any coaches teaching to do the S recently. Strictly from a physics standpoint, any point where you are not pulling in line with the direction you’re going would be an inefficiency.
Single-arm drill is a good way to figure this out. You will feel, when you do it right, your hips open up, your body moving.
Other arm is extended - stroke with just one.
Dave is pretty much right on, but don’t over complicate it. Pull through should focus on a 90 degree elbow angle, high elbow and a straight pull through close to mid line. An inch to either side is ok. If you have trouble keeping your elbow high, pretend you are reaching over a barrell. By high elbow I mean towards the head vs the feet, not the surface of the water.
NO “S” curve. It is very weak. Watch a swimmer that is very tired and you will see the “S” pull through.
My coach totally re-built my stroke my freshman year in college with these simple thoughts. It took me until my sophomore year, but then it all clicked. Life was good then.
The virtual swim site is EXCELLENT…I have had lots of questions about rotation, and when to start the pull. This helps tremendously.
to everybody in general
I really appreciate all the input on ST regarding this swimming help. After a long time of trying, I finally managed to put in about 1:32/100 without thrashing etc. It felt really good to swim efficiently. Mostly, I coached myself as I like to self learn but it would not have been possible without the help and input here. You guys were not presently physically but, what the heck, I’ll still want to thank you all!!!
I am ready to crush some dreams now! Tell me how to get faster and down to 1:20!!!
“tell me how to get to 1:20”
swim lots more!
Wait. Is this just one day of self coaching that you are speaking off??? From the time you started this thread until know??? Or did I miss something? Just out of curiosity, is that 1:32/100 once, or an average??
I’s recommend some slow motion video on youtube - watch the hand. I thought Phelps had more of a very shallow S while the Aussies were more straight pull. I think the “S-shaped” pull was more emphasized in the 1980’s when I swam and is now less in favor…you’d have to ask people more in the “current” know than I though. Watching the video is pretty striking how bent their elbows are and how close they keep their hand to their body. I’m still trying to learn more so take all I say with a grain of salt.
In my opinion - it seems like the right hand enters at shoulder width with the body flat on the water - then you roll your body about 30-40 degrees to the left as you drop your right shoulder and extend the right hand straight out. The hand at this point is in line with the shoulder which is low in the water - this puts the hand just outside of midline. The hand pretty much tracks straight back just outside of midline. As the hand passes under your eyes - your left hand should be just about to enter the water and again your body should be flat - your elbow should be flexed at 90 degrees and your elbow should be close to the surface of the water and your hand should be relatively close to the body. During the 2nd half of the pull - you are rolling to the left - your hand may approach your belly button then passes near your speedo line as it exits the water. All in all, the body rolls as your swim but the hand seems to track a relatively straight line just outside of midline. I don’t think you want your hand to ever go outside of shoulder line or cross midline.
Anybody - feel free to correct any of the above if its wrong.
Dave
I didn’t intend to hijack this thread, but you guys have offered some seemingly, very sound information.
Thanks. Will no longer worry about the “S” 
no…i had been trying for quite some time actually. I finally managed to get good rotation about 4 weeks back and started working on my kicking but I was never able to figure out the pull part. I still am not able to understand the catch. Today, I was able to understand the pull after getting some tips here so I tried it today and it made a huge difference. I was able to put 1:32 -1:35 for about 300m which is a good start for me. I stopped after that but did keep on doing drills as I was afraid that I might lose what I had learnt! But, I will slowly build it up to 500 and then more till I don’t lose my form anymore.
Watching video recently - it did seem that Thorpe pulled a straight line right under his body and straight in the midline. Phelps seemed to have a bit more shallow S in his stroke - seemed to start at shoulder width - then straight down - then swing in to belly button - then swing out to hip. I had trouble figuring out the backstroke pull - that seems to go up and down a fair bit. Also watching the pelvis - Thorpe/Phelps keep their pelvis fairly flat - they mainly rotate their shoulders but not all that much. Also seemed like Thorpe’s stroke is quite assymetric wrto breathing side vs. non-breathing…
I forget - do you live in southern california? Do you have any interest in doing any volunteer swim stroke clinics for age-group swimmers in Mammoth Lakes? Its a nice place to visit…I’m on the board for the local swim team and we need A LOT of help…
I’ll also PM you - Thanks!
Dave
I was always told the ‘S’ curve happens naturally as the hips rotate with the body. Focusing on a high elbow, not crossing center, and gaining reach while limiting stoke count are good goals for every prospective swimmer.
The one drill I’ve been working on all winter is the Scooter Drill as posted here by the revered, late Doug Stern:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=681536;search_string=scooter%20drill;#681536
Still improving my time but w/o a doubt my stroke is much more effecient becasue of it.