Swimming- "rotate forward, not side to side'

Russell Mark’s one of USA swimming’s biomechanics gurus, and this isn’t the first time he’s taken a position that the elites swim long axis strokes flatter in the water than we think.

http://www.usaswimming.org/ViewNewsArticle.aspx?TabId=0&itemid=4101&mid=8712

Rotation is an important part of freestyle, but how much should you really do it? The stroke takes place much more on your stomach than it does on your side. The best freestylers rotate their shoulders to either side about 30 degrees from the surface, meaning that they never even rotate halfway onto their side (which would be 90 degrees).

Rotate forward. It helps lengthen your stroke and sets you up for the best catch.

Yup … same reason why good swim coaches might say … “lead with the hip” … forward & down (not just down)

What distance were they swimming and at what speed would be my question.

Also how much does any given person rotate.

34 degrees doesn’t seem like much, but then again the general public might rotate the same amount when swimming those efforts.

What exactly does “rotate forward” mean?

The image I have in my head is the threads on a screw, rotating in 3 dimensions rather than 2. Just rotating would be a two dimensional movement, aka spinning in a circle, but we are trying to move forward (the third dimension) in the water, so our rotation should add that third dimension as well. Instead of just rotating in a circle as you would standing still drive the shoulder of the hand that is recovering forward and down.

Another image I have in my head is a kayaker. Your shoulders should trace a similar path of the paddle, recovering forward and down before catching, pulling back and then lifting.

Gotta say the “rotate forward” is a very simple and accurate way to put an idea that I found very hard to teach. Now I have to go try to use it when I get the chance

I could be wrong here, but I usually notice that OVER-rotation for breathing is the problem that most true noob swimmers make, since they flop their whole face out of the water to gasp for air.

I see the too-flat swimming done sometimes by more intermediate swimmers who can already go a good mile and more no problem, but even then, at least from what I’ve seen, over-rotating for that extra air sensation still seems like more of a problem.

I do think a lot of folks under-rotate on their non-breathing side, though. So I guess I’m seeing a mix of over-andunder rotation.

What exactly does “rotate forward” mean?

maybe like a corkscrew?

What exactly does “rotate forward” mean?

I think he means rotating while reaching? If so, a good way to get a feeling for doing this is to rotate/reach until your cheek touches your triceps.

Just one of many things to remember while swimming almost like swinging a golf club. Form is much more important than fitness.

Oh Crap! Not again.

Looks like that’s advice for elite swimmers. Not totally sure if it applies to triathletes.

I am anything but competent at the swim and I am absolutely not one to give advice, but it certainly seems like rotating works pretty well for Sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJtgTjU1RBE
Swimming seems more and more like voodoo. Rotate/don’t rotate, finish your stroke/don’t finish your stroke
swim long/increase your turnover.
Looks to me like the bottom line is swim more, swim harder and find your own way through the water.

I just watched the video and it looks like he’s got an angle smaller than 30deg, so not sure what you mean…

Try this one. This one is better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZMbiem-V8

I have two problems, one of which another poster mentioned:

  1. What the heck does “rotate forward” mean?
  2. The angles shown in a lot of the article’s pictures show shoulder angle, not body angle. In some the body is clearyly flatter, and in some the body is clearly steeper.

Yeah, good point, that’s just shoulder angle.

Right. I thought the pictures were more indicative of EVF than body roll. But Im just a mediocore swimmer so I may be looking at it wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZMbiem-V8 Here is Sun rotating on both sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_hHq9Dc And here is Michael Phelps, rotating alot more on the breathing side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_hHq9Dc This is Ian Thorpe who also appears to rotate alot.

When I made my biggest improvements in swimming is when I finally learned the concept of hip rotation, like mentioned. Its all about reaching with your hips, so that your hips propel you forward, and allow your reaching arm to glide.

I think part of what he’s talking about involves good shoulder flexibility and understanding how to use what roll you do have to fully extend on the front end. Seems like one common comment I’ll make on swim videos posted here is ‘you’ve got decent body rotation but you don’t know how to use that rotation to get your stroke longer.’