I’m getting back into swimming but not sure about swimming in a squad or swimming by myself.
I enjoy the group setting and feel more motivated training with others. However, most of the time I feel the squad isn’t fitting in well with my season in the base period the squad is doing speed sets, etc and when I want to do speed sets building into peak and races, the sets don’t suit.
However, swimming by myself in the public lanes people get in the way and I’m less inclined to push harder and faster without others there. Although it is more specific to my training, more time flexible and costs less. I don’t get the social factor also.
For those of you that good swimmers, how do you prefer to fit it into training for triathlon?
All good swimmers seem to swim in a squad. World champions do so it’s probably the best option. I’m in neither group and swim by myself because it better suits me and I actually prefer it. If your a previous long time squad swimmer you can probably get away with individual training if you’re self motivated but if you want to max you’re potential a squad and good coach is hard to beat.
I do both. Prefer squad swimming, but I also do a bunch of swimming on mjy own for when the squad schedule doesn’t fit mine, or I just want extra metres.
For triathlons, I wouldn’t be all that concerned about the specific workouts. Unless you’re just doing drop dead 25’s on a 5 minute interval, It all contributes to endurance. The specific workout is trumped by the fact that you are pushing harder, especially if you get to swim with a few others who are close to your speed.
However, most of the time I feel the squad isn’t fitting in well with my season in the base period the squad is doing speed sets, etc and when I want to do speed sets building into peak and races,
Sorry but that us exactly the way to do it. Build speed now with FAST sets with long rest and then move to threshold sets with short rest when closer to the season. No reason to peaking with speed sets for triathlon.
Anyway ALLWAYS the squat when you have that option
Squad swimming for the social aspect alone makes it worth it. That and being with people that are slightly faster than you, or if you’re leading the lane, keeping ahead of them is great motivation.
I found it to be very beneficial to swim with a master’s swim team. It was more fun, the camraderie was great and I was making steady improvements.
Unfortunately, swimming with a team means meeting their set workout times. There’s no way for me to make any of the workout times for the various squads in Houston, so swimming alone is the only way I can actually swim.
So, if you can do it, swim with a team. Otherwise, swimming alone is better than not swimming at all!
Most athletes, have the concept of a “base” period wrong. Base if about more general fitness where as you build later on is race specific fitness. So base training will look the lease like you race paces. So doing long rest sprinting, mixing up strokes and basically doing what swimmers normally do, is more beneficial. That might still include long rides, but the long rides would be less focused with a mix of intensities, less steady state.
Definitely swim with a team, it should help make you a better swimmer, jsut as riding with cyclists makes you a better cyclists, and running with runners…well, running with runners probably will just get you injured as you liekyl lack the mileage and base to do what they are doing. Run with ultra runners… on trails, have fun.
I’ve only ever swam by myself so squad swimming has an appeal to me. I’m only 1.5 years into my swim training and I’ve been seriously considering getting a coach and joining a squad to get me to the next level. With that being said, it’s hard to wake up at 5am to make 6am squad practice knowing I have a 25M pool 10 floors down that’s always available for use. I guess I’m a spoiled swimmer in that I can go whenever I want and get in a good workout.
My workouts are always taken from the “fishie” threads here and I am seeing progress but like most triathletes that speed can’t come soon enough for me. I’ve taken the first step in putting in more mileage first which is still not as much as many do. I’m currently averaging 11-15k per week but it’s looking like that isn’t enough to get me from a 1:50/100M pace to my 2015 target of 1:35/100M pace in open water.
I’ve done both and feel the group scenario is better. You can push yourself harder, there’s a built in support system to actually show up, you have reserved lanes, and most importantly everyone in the lane is doing the same workout. There’s nothing worse, to me at least, than having different workouts going on in the same lane.
Just for discussion purposes: Jason Lezak and Katy Hoff. Near the end of his career Lezak did it all himself. Hoff was coached but did some of her workout all by herself (at least occasionally. Someone may have more specifics on her than me.).
Mind you I agree with the sentiment here: swim with a group. A decent group workout is better than a good solo workout. And there is no substitution for a great group workout.
All “should I swim/train like as swimmer” questions need to acknowledge that in the US, we are dealing with the leading, most dominate swim development system in the world and it has been that way since at least the 1960’s (save the East German women’s drug phase . . . ). And, there is a surprisingly high level of downward flow of elite coaching and training techniques in the sport to the local level. The typical local age group swim team is certainly being coached and training much more professionally than your average local running or cycling club.
And, many of those folks you are swimming with on the masters team came up through this environment as kids. Join them and you can tap into their knowledge.
So, yes, if you have the opportunity to train in a group setting with a coach, you should do that because that is how all real swimmers in the US train. And, if you are physically able, you should do the same or similar workouts too. The swim world in the US has this sh*t dialed in so don’t think you know better.
All “should I swim/train like as swimmer” questions need to acknowledge that in the US, we are dealing with the leading, most dominate swim development system in the world and it has been that way since at least the 1960’s (save the East German women’s drug phase . . . ). And, there is a surprisingly high level of downward flow of elite coaching and training techniques in the sport to the local level. The typical local age group swim team is certainly being coached and training much more professionally than your average local running or cycling club.
And, many of those folks you are swimming with on the masters team came up through this environment as kids. Join them and you can tap into their knowledge.
So, yes, if you have the opportunity to train in a group setting with a coach, you should do that because that is how all real swimmers in the US train. And, if you are physically able, you should do the same or similar workouts too. The swim world in the US has this sh*t dialed in so don’t think you know better.
That is good context for this discussion!
You do see that I wrote “Mind you I agree with the sentiments…” part of my post, yes?
I can only offer up my experiences. Quite a long triathlon history dating back to the mid 80’s, but never saw any kind of swimming progress. Joined a coach and a group about 4 years ago and poof. Answer was a resounding yes for me. For me anyway it’s so much easier to go to the Pain Cave for 90 minutes if there are other people with me, plus general camaraderie and then the obvious eyes of an experienced coach watching over us.
As far as the training not suiting your race needs. I’d suggest unless you are a highly tuned swim machine and you know exactly what you need to prep for that 18 minute Oly swim the Masters group will get you much farther down the progress spectrum than random swimming on your own. Not sure I have ever met a triathlete who trained with a good group consistently who said ‘yea but it’s holding me back from my fastest times’. It’s always, ‘why didn’t I do this 5 years ago?’.
What STP said.
I’ve looked at this within my athletes in the past. the people swimming masters and/or with age group teams some, almost always seemed to get faster faster vs those swimming only solo or the occasional workout with another person.
IMO the biggest downfall of most triathlon coaches is they don’t know shit about swimming, set design, other strokes etc. You see that trickle down to their athletes when they swim.
How much technique tips does a normal masters swim program give? Is it 100% a list of sets… or occasionally a pointer?
I ask because I tried my first masters swim class last night. Got 1 pointer that my stroke was too long. Which is awesome, if I can get 1 pointer a week I could be someplace in a year. But not sure if my swim class was abnormal, as people on ST talking about swim classes always sound way more hardcore than any masters swim I have seen (where say, there are some ex-high school swimmers that weigh 275 now, and some 55 year old women).
The hardest thing about swimming, is it is hard to get technique down. Doing swim sets itself is no harder than running or biking. So I think if there is SOME kind of feedback loop, swim in group is a good way to go.
The amount of feedback depends on the group/coach and probably the group size. I’ve done master’s groups where the coach on deck will tell you a set, and then not pay attention again until you’ve finished that set and are standing around in your lane. My current coach is pretty awesome, though, and is very attentive. He will give feedback sporadically, some mornings even emailing a video of your stroke with feedback that he took while you weren’t watching. He’ll also volunteer a tip if he notices something when you are swimming solo outside of master’s, too.
depends on the coach. i’ve seen masters coaches who are all over people all the time about their strokes, or at least until they realize the person isn’t going to change, then it’s less frequent reminders.
I’ve seen masters coaches write the workout, then sit in a chair and not do anything but make sure you know when you’re leaving.
I’d say most programs fall somewhere towards the middle of the spectrum. If it were me, I’d ask the coach to occasionally watch me swim and see if there are any glaring things. You’re more likely to have a higher success ratio with that if you ask vs don’t ask imo.
Also depends on the swimmer. There are guys who have strokes so ingrained, they’ll never be able to make substantial changes to their stroke without slowing down, even if the change is “technically” better. Think of all the elite level swimmers who swim with a massive lope to the stroke. Good coaches will know what to leave alone, even if it isn’t “perfect” and what to alter.
All “should I swim/train like as swimmer” questions need to acknowledge that in the US, we are dealing with the leading, most dominate swim development system in the world and it has been that way since at least the 1960’s (save the East German women’s drug phase . . . ).
The swim world in the US has this sh*t dialed in so don’t think you know better.
(disclaimer: I didn’t come up through the age group ranks)
How many kids in the US are in development (read: swim teams) compared to other countries, in total numbers? There may be other reasons we are so dominant.