ie Hand paddles, the kick board, the snorkel, the fins, the pull bouy, etc etc?
I seem to have gravitated towards the philosophy (Total Immersion?) that these things are over-rated or not necessary, or maybe even harmful.
Kickboarding gets a knock in many books I have read about swimming. (And I go absolutely nowhere when I kickboard.) Hand paddles have caused me some shoulder pain.
Do these things always help? Sometimes help?
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
The ‘toys’ are useless. Knowing what to do with the toys to improve your swimming, and then doing that is priceless.
EG your comment about kicking and going nowhere shows that having a board is no use to you at all, but that changing your kick to provide that stability, lift and potentially slight propulsion is really going to help your swimming.
I spent years doing drills and swim sets on my onw and getting slower. Then joined a squad, realised I was doing the drills all wrong and therefore actively sabotaging my swimming and I took more than 30s/100m off in about 6 months of 3x a week swimming. I use kickboard most sessions, if only for 100m kick in warmup, but that enforces technique that helps with the regular vertical kick sets we do (no toys). Fins are mainly just for the technique sessions, but they really help with being able to focus on what we are working on with hand/arm and not thinking about sinking / drowning. Paddles I’m personally less enthusiastic about as I move from back of lane to front of lane for paddle drills - ie I’ve got the strength / fitness but my technique is my limiter. Hence I wouldn’t use paddles by choice, where for others that go the other way they want to build that strength / endurance as that’s their limiter and the paddles help do that in a more time efficient manner that 4 x 800m sets would.
My 2¢ is that some equipment is better than others, for different people with different goals.
Focusing on adult-onset swimmers, who need to develop an efficient kick as well as shoulder range of motion, I recommend these:
Fins: many AOS have very ineffective and inefficient kicks. This is because they haven’t spent years working on ankle plantar flexion and flexible hips. Knowing that their kicks aren’t good and that they “need to save their legs for the bike and run,†many AOS triathletes skip kick sets and ignore fins and pile on the mileage in training using paddles and buoys. This is 180° from the right approach. Kicks don’t have to be particularly fast or propulsive, but kicks need to be stabilizers. Kicks are efficient stabilizers when the ankles and hips can provide a good motion. Fins will help stretch these ligaments and end up making the kicks more efficient, which in the end actually means more than “saving the legs.â€
My advice: keep the paddles and buoys in the equipment bag or at home, and swim at least 50% of training mileage with fins. After a few months, you’ll find yourself more horizontal while swimming and have a much more efficient overall stroke.
Snorkel: IMO the best training aid for freestyle. Allows the user to focus on stroke symmetry and great body position. I use it for about 1/4 of all my training mileage.
Snorkels and fins together: great combo in all training intervals and distances, from 50 sprints to 1500 TT.
Things to throw out: TI materials.
That’s a great post, thanks.
I freely admit to my misplaced focus on the toys themselves vice how one might use them properly. 
My 2¢ is that some equipment is better than others, for different people with different goals.
Focusing on adult-onset swimmers, who need to develop an efficient kick as well as shoulder range of motion, I recommend these:
Fins: many AOS have very ineffective and inefficient kicks. This is because they haven’t spent years working on ankle plantar flexion and flexible hips. Knowing that their kicks aren’t good and that they “need to save their legs for the bike and run,†many AOS triathletes skip kick sets and ignore fins and pile on the mileage in training using paddles and buoys. This is 180° from the right approach. Kicks don’t have to be particularly fast or propulsive, but kicks need to be stabilizers. Kicks are efficient stabilizers when the ankles and hips can provide a good motion. Fins will help stretch these ligaments and end up making the kicks more efficient, which in the end actually means more than “saving the legs.â€
My advice: keep the paddles and buoys in the equipment bag or at home, and swim at least 50% of training mileage with fins. After a few months, you’ll find yourself more horizontal while swimming and have a much more efficient overall stroke.
Snorkel: IMO the best training aid for freestyle. Allows the user to focus on stroke symmetry and great body position. I use it for about 1/4 of all my training mileage.
Snorkels and fins together: great combo in all training intervals and distances, from 50 sprints to 1500 TT.
Things to throw out: TI materials.
x2 on fins. Everything you said. The entire “saving the legs” for bike and run is BS (or should I say a BS excuse for choosing to not figuring out how to use the kick minimally as a stabilizing force.
Someone gave me a good visual. Imagine trying to swing a golf club, a tennis racket, or baseball bat standing on a swivel turntable type platform and getting zero power into the ball as your legs hopelessly slip underneath you as you try to apply force to the ball. There would be no connection from feet to hands through hips and shoulders. Once the entire shin through ankle and foot provides that more firm counter force platform with the right timing, it makes a world of difference.
The answer is “It depends”. Whatever gets you in the pool swimming is a good thing as long as you don’t expect race day to be the same as a 3k hand paddle set…You will get a dozen different perspectives on swim training here from a dozen different talent and experience levels and/or goal directions so as is usual here, prepare to be totally confused.
For me,hand paddles of varying sizes and fins for different sets are all I use and it makes swim training more fun.I even use hand paddles in the surf which is really good fun.No amount of swim shaming here on ST will make me change (or make me do flip turns)
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I’ll leave the debate with someone who knows more about coaching triathlon swimmers than me…
The Pull-Buoy Debate - Trisutto
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ie Hand paddles, the kick board, the snorkel, the fins, the pull bouy, etc etc?
I seem to have gravitated towards the philosophy (Total Immersion?) that these things are over-rated or not necessary, or maybe even harmful.
Kickboarding gets a knock in many books I have read about swimming. (And I go absolutely nowhere when I kickboard.) Hand paddles have caused me some shoulder pain.
Do these things always help? Sometimes help?
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
I think for most triathletes they are used as a crutch, to help make their sessions easier and to push out the distance. You get people doing 3km sets, with no more than 700m freestyle only. All the rest is warm-up, drills and toys. You give a triathlete a 300m warmup they will instantly grab a PB or fins rather than swim slow freestyle especially when Strava is concerned. Some people won’t take their core pants off because they are worried about their slower pace on Strava.
For most BOP - MOP triathlete swimmers I would suggest ditching paddles, PB and fins (at least in the short term). Perhaps just kickboard and snorkel and 70-80% of your set should be straight freestyle.
So, I’m by no means a rock star swimmer- I’m a middle of the pack kinda guy, but I thought I’d share my experience with this subject since I have kind of a unique experience. I actually came to swimming very, very late- I shifted from long distance running (marathon and ultra) a few years ago and I had to learn to swim from scratch. I basically spent all of my time learning to swim with a coach as well as building further endurance on the bike.
Here’s my take so far- I think the toys depend on how they’re used and what stage you’re at. When I was first getting going there’s no way I could have built up any endurance as an older swimmer without losing total confidence and feeling dejected without the use of a pull buoy. Those workouts were a lot of 25m swim, 25 pull, 50 swim, 50 pull, etc.
As I built to the point of having a reasonable base under me the toys became more of a tool. A few hundred of the pb in a warmup set, 100 here and there with it for active recovery.
With the kick, I’ll be honest, it’s good for me to kind of burn my legs up using it just to get some feel of tiredness, but my kick really just kinda sucks. It’s not where I’m going to get the most leverage from my training at this point so I don’t have a heavy focus on it. I’m fine for stabilization and the basics, but I’m far more focused on adjusting some elements of my stroke which have little to do with the kick itself (yah it’s all connected, but this is more about entry point and whatnot).
I can’t speak to the generalities of everything, but that’s been my experience in this journey.
I am sure this is me. I get sore ankles and cramp in the calves and feet whenever I do fin work. I guess that means I need to do it more often but any ideas on other things to do to work on this. At the moment where I live pools are closed so any at home streching or strengthening ideas wold be appreciated!
I posted about fins for AOS. Now as for my relationship with training gear, I use snorkels and paddles as a way to break up my long swims and add some variety. A good 1/4 of my day is with snorkels, with paddles thrown in there as well.
My favorite paddles are the size three (biggest) Finis agility paddles and red Strokemakers. I don’t usually swim more than 600-800m/y total with paddles, but I definitely use those.
I posted about fins for AOS. Now as for my relationship with training gear, I use snorkels and paddles as a way to break up my long swims and add some variety. A good 1/4 of my day is with snorkels, with paddles thrown in there as well.
My favorite paddles are the size three (biggest) Finis agility paddles and red Strokemakers. I don’t usually swim more than 600-800m/y total with paddles, but I definitely use those.
yeah I have the same paddles, same size, They are the dogs bollocks.
The equipment bags belonging to many swimmers and triathletes look like the dog’s breakfast.
Things to throw out: TI materials.
I got halfway through the book, then I started to…um…have some doubts. I think there is a lot of good stuff in the book, but to my mind, the tail seems to be wagging the dog. There’s a whole forum of people worrying about stroke counts above all else. Perhaps this topic deserves it’s own thread.
Anyway, I am carefully reading all replies/opinions here, so thanks.
I never used fins or paddles from club swimming to college.
I was forced to use 25lb med balls when doing vert kicks and endless sets of pull-ups…so you could always try that
I never used fins or paddles from club swimming to college.
I was forced to use 25lb med balls when doing vert kicks and endless sets of pull-ups…so you could always try that
Were you straight flutter kicking with no fins when you used the 25 lb med ball??? Did you actually get it over your head with straight arms??? If so, you must have an amazing kick.
I never used fins or paddles from club swimming to college.
I was forced to use 25lb med balls when doing vert kicks and endless sets of pull-ups…so you could always try that
Counterpoint - I bring a full gear bag to the pool every time i swim. Fins/Paddles/Buoy/Board/Snorkel. I use pretty much all of it in every session with the exception of the fins. It’s all about appropriate application. Many times the board and pulling gear are only used during warmup or a preset. Or maybe an aerobic long pull after a main swim set.
To the OP - if you have one piece of gear get a snorkel and use it all the damn time. Everything beyond that is gravy.
It was more like ten seconds of hard dolphin kick with straight arms then a slow, soggy, and hypoxic sink to the bottom. However, the sprinters had no problem doing the full 30sec interval with straight arms.
Since becoming a master’s swimmer, I have fallen deeply in love with the gear. However, unless you have a youth swimming background, I feel like all you need is the snorkel. Everything else turns into a crutch to hit set times
Oh yeah - you have to know how to use the gear correctly. I’ve been swimming for nearly 30 years at this point (including D1 and professionally), so feel pretty entitled to put on whatever gear I want whenever I want, haha.
It was more like ten seconds of hard dolphin kick with straight arms then a slow, soggy, and hypoxic sink to the bottom. However, the sprinters had no problem doing the full 30sec interval with straight arms.
That’s still very impressive, I have a hard enough time doing vert kicking with my arms straight over my head w/o the 25 lbs. I do kind of like the vert kicking though, as it seems to really stretch my ankles/hips out better than just reg kicking.