Wanted to get some guidance on the swim portion of an IM 70.3 . If your a MOP is it really beneficial to try and improve your time ?
Personally due to the distance I believe improvements on the bike/run would be more effective. Thoughts ?
Haven’t we been over this before? In short, increasing swim fitness, generally speaking, has benefits that extend beyond just the swim legof the race.
If your a MOP is it really beneficial to try and improve your time ?
Yes.
Personally due to the distance I believe improvements on the bike/run would be more effective.
No.
Wanted to get some guidance on the swim portion of an IM 70.3
This applies to all distances of triathlon.
If your a MOP is it really beneficial to try and improve your time ?
Yes.
Personally due to the distance I believe improvements on the bike/run would be more effective.
No.
Wanted to get some guidance on the swim portion of an IM 70.3
This applies to all distances of triathlon.
I’ll disagree here with my little knowledge.
You should always try to improve your swim, as was mentioned before, because it will play out over all of the disciplines. However, it is “more beneficial” (not the right wording, i’d use “easiest time savings”) to work on bike and run giving you better “time savings”. So yeah, working on the bike and run will yield better time gains/savings…but ignoring the swim shouldn’t be the mindset.
Wanted to get some guidance on the swim portion of an IM 70.3 . If your a MOP is it really beneficial to try and improve your time ?
Personally due to the distance I believe improvements on the bike/run would be more effective. Thoughts ?
Most likely the swim will either be cancelled or shorted. Triathlon swims are no more that dip your foot in and splash water on your face so I would work more on the bike and run.
I think you should swim more because you enjoy swimming. If you don’t enjoy it, may be duathlons?
It’s a continuing and endlessly debated conundrum.
For what it’s worth go back and read all the threads on Lionel Sanders and his trials and tribulations about the swim. Lots of people giving him advice about how his swim will be the secret to his success. Because the swim matters, but only for pros…maybe.
It can be argued that increasing your swim ability translates to the other two disciplines. In a way that’s true, because you don’t drag yourself out of the water, gasp your way to the bike and spend the first ten minutes trying to get air into your lungs and blood to your legs. For a long time, within my age group no one who beat me in the swim, ever beat me to the finish (I’m not talking about winning, just placing). Then along came someone who could and did, both ( because they could also run).and they always win. They did it by learning to swim. They currently, hold the AG record at Kona. And the final piece, for them, was learning to swim, fast.
So you takes your pick Picking up between 2 and 6 minutes is a given when you learn to swim (and that’s in an Olympic), multiply the distance and you multiply the time, as you go up in distance, because swimming speed is constant in practically every race. Even in a tough swim course, with waves or currents, the increase in speed, over a poorer swimmer, is constant That isn’t always true in the other two, especially the run. The longer the race, the more you need left in your tank. If you are swimming over 40 minutes as a MOP HIM competitor, you have left 10 minutes on the table. The same 10 minutes is 3kph speed difference or the better part of a minute difference, per mile on the run. Those are big numbers to find if you are already at your limit.
And the funny thing is, swimming only requires technique. Not that muscle, not that much aerobics, just good technique. If a 60lb, 10 year old (of either sex) can beat you (and they can) then you have to understand it’s about technique. You already have the muscle, just train it. It could be the easiest, cheapest, 10 minutes you will ever find.
Best of luck.
Sorry, it’s def NOT just all about technique. That used to be the biggest swim myth out there, that’s fortunately been gradually debunked here on ST (thank god.)
These 10 year old swimmers who smoke triathletes are not joe-average random swimmers. They are the ones who have the most natural aptitude for it, are clearly good at it enough to keep at it and not go to other things, and have usually been swimming years even before age 10, often in youth squads. And the ones that can beat even a lousy middling adult swimmer like myself, are the ones that train really freaking hard - harder than I do in swim training as a motivated adult (I’ve seen it, it’s for real.)
All the stories you hear of ex-comp swimmers who take gobs of time off, or maintain fast swimming on like <4k swimming per week, are the same caliber of talent as the runners who can run sub 18 5ks on under 30 mpw or run sub3 marathons on <20mpw. (Some dude here on ST runs a 3:00 on 11mpw!)
I do think that the swim is super important despite the seemingly small time gains, and I actually think it’s even more important for an AGer than the pros (who tend to be already pretty darn good at swimming). For the unprepared AGer, it’s not about the time you lose during the swim, it’s the time you lose on the bike/run as a consequence of getting out of the swim gassed. AGers hugely underestimate this all the time (me included) and then ask why they couldnt run/bike as well as they expected even though they ‘didn’t go hard on the swim’, and turns out they were really light on the swim training and thus it takes a lot more out of them than expected.
As below average swimmer, below average cyclist and bottom 2% runner… This is my opinion.
Swim training isn’t a waste.
While it might only be 3-6mins in a 70.3 from a pure time on the clock perspective, the purpose of good swim training isn’t for you to be first out of the water. The idea of good swim training is so that you can be more comfortable and cruise the swim, so that you have more in the tank at the start of the bike.
I have caught up with people while walking the back half of a full, who on a good day run a stand alone marathon in sub3:30’s, and I pass them while walking, all because they didn’t put in the bike training. The same is true for the swim, being stronger and faster might only net you a few minutes overall, but having the confidence to not have to smash yourself just to race cutoff for the swim is much more important. Being able to watch the next wave go past and jump on a set of feet and get a tow for a few extra minutes, because you had the extra speed on tap may make a little bit more time back. You will get out of the water fresher, and with that boost from knowing you are already setting a good pace, instead of knowing that you are 10mins down on FOP of your AG, and you haven’t even put shoes on.
Trust me, after having swims over the 40min mark (I think there was a 48min swim in a 70.3 at one point), the first time I hit the sand in 33mins was amazing. Running on so much adrenaline, I then knocked out my fastest T1 time at that race (I have raced it 5 times).
And it has been said by the commentators for many years. “You cannot win a tri in the water, but you can lose it.”
Sorry, it’s def NOT just all about technique. That used to be the biggest swim myth out there, that’s fortunately been gradually debunked here on ST (thank god.)
These 10 year old swimmers who smoke triathletes are not joe-average random swimmers. They are the ones who have the most natural aptitude for it, are clearly good at it enough to keep at it and not go to other things, and have usually been swimming years even before age 10, often in youth squads. And the ones that can beat even a lousy middling adult swimmer like myself, are the ones that train really freaking hard - harder than I do in swim training as a motivated adult (I’ve seen it, it’s for real.)
All the stories you hear of ex-comp swimmers who take gobs of time off, or maintain fast swimming on like <4k swimming per week, are the same caliber of talent as the runners who can run sub 18 5ks on under 30 mpw or run sub3 marathons on <20mpw. (Some dude here on ST runs a 3:00 on 11mpw!)
I do think that the swim is super important despite the seemingly small time gains, and I actually think it’s even more important for an AGer than the pros (who tend to be already pretty darn good at swimming). For the unprepared AGer, it’s not about the time you lose during the swim, it’s the time you lose on the bike/run as a consequence of getting out of the swim gassed. AGers hugely underestimate this all the time (me included) and then ask why they couldnt run/bike as well as they expected even though they ‘didn’t go hard on the swim’, and turns out they were really light on the swim training and thus it takes a lot more out of them than expected.
Quoted for truth!!! I’ve seen lots of 10 yr old swimmers who can’t swim for sh*t, as I watch them every afternoon as I run on the T-mill overlooking the indoor pool. This is about 99% vs 1% who just catch right on and are swimming 1:10 for 100 yd free at age 10.
You realize that talent has nothing to do with this discussion, right? It’s not about talent, it’s about making the most of what you’ve got.
I am a terrible swimmer and I never get out of the water gassed. I feel that the biggest problem on the swim portion (for me) is that I’m not able to push myself in the same way as I do on the bike and the run. My HR will typically be in the mid 130´s for a half, whereas the bike and the run will be in the 160´s.
But I haven’t found a way to get comfortable pushing in the pool either, so I bet there’s a correlation between the two 
Then you aren’t a terrible swimmer. You might not be fast (or you might be, I don’t know), but if you can complete the swim and not have to recover from the effort, then you are a good swimmer.
Fast and good aren’t the same thing.
I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying. Slow, not bad. I like it.
I am a terrible swimmer and I never get out of the water gassed. I feel that the biggest problem on the swim portion (for me) is that I’m not able to push myself in the same way as I do on the bike and the run. My HR will typically be in the mid 130´s for a half, whereas the bike and the run will be in the 160´s.
But I haven’t found a way to get comfortable pushing in the pool either, so I bet there’s a correlation between the two
Im the same. I can do a 42min comfortably and almost fall asleep, but to push hard enough to save another 5 mins would leave me gassed and struggling, not worth it at this stage…
Wow, some similar 40+ HIM swimmers, nice to have some company. I’ve gone from 48/49mins down to 41/42, but I’m on that plateau now and settled there. I swim 3 times a week - around 6-8km, can’t do much more than that.
You realize that talent has nothing to do with this discussion, right? It’s not about talent, it’s about making the most of what you’ve got.
The talent factor.is exactly why people confuse 10 year old fast club swimmers with technique related gains in swimming. It’s at the core of why this swim myth of fast 10 year old club swimmers = every adult can swim that fastwithkut serious swim conditioning is a lie
I am a terrible swimmer and I never get out of the water gassed. I feel that the biggest problem on the swim portion (for me) is that I’m not able to push myself in the same way as I do on the bike and the run. My HR will typically be in the mid 130´s for a half, whereas the bike and the run will be in the 160´s.
But I haven’t found a way to get comfortable pushing in the pool either, so I bet there’s a correlation between the two
You should see my.other thread about trying out hard water running to help acclimate to breathing hard against water resistance pushing back on he ribcage.
It’s just a theory of mine but I’ve def noticed it helps for us runbikers who feel weirdly constrained for effort in the water even after accounting for cooling.
Also, the reality that your swim muscular endurance lags your runbikers muscular endurance is a major factor, but I think the breathing issue is very underestimated.
Wanted to get some guidance on the swim portion of an IM 70.3 . If your a MOP is it really beneficial to try and improve your time ?
Personally due to the distance I believe improvements on the bike/run would be more effective. Thoughts ?
The swimmers will say yes,…I was a college swimmer and I say no.
Triathlons are a different animal that is a time distance math problem when you boil it down. Once you have developed your swim ability and some endurance it takes 10,000’s of meters to swimming to get incrementally faster on what is the shortest leg distance and time wise of any race. Do you have time in your life to swim that much?
You have distance on your side to make up time on the bike and run. If you are limited in training time…swim MOP, bike and run fast and you can make up a ton of time. If time is the limiter…you get more bang for your buck focusing on the bike and the run.
How do you know when you’ve developed your swim ability and it’s time to heavily increase your training? I swam my first lap in a pool in December and was around 2:15/100yd for 10x100 intervals once I was able to complete the distance. After 2-3x a week over the last 6 months I’m now at a consistent 1:45/100yd. Do i swim maintenance twice a week or keep pushing?