I can’t imagine how Congressman (and former Marine Reservist) Murtha must feel, given his “war crimes and massacres” meme on this one. Still, it must be a comfort to LCPL Tatum and his family. It also doesn’t appear as if comparisons to the Vietnam-era My Lai incident have been proven to be valid, either.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/ap_on_re_us/marines_haditha_1
Regards,
T.
The fact that our soldiers are in a place like that to begin with is the real tragedy of the story. Just because charges are dropped, does not mean they are innocent. The Haditha incident is a black mark on our military because of the situation they were put in. The people impacted in Iraq will never forget this even if all charges are dropped. There are no winners in cases like this.
Yes, the whole story and incident was bogus to begin with. No US soldier ever committed any crimes - murder, drug dealing, rape, stealing, etc etc.
“No US soldier ever committed any crimes - murder, drug dealing, rape, stealing, etc etc”
Who ever said that? At issue is the fact that all sorts of people tried and convicted these particular Marines in the court of public opinion to score cheap political points before the evidence was in or the process of investigating was completed. Surprise, surprise, without evidence or investigation, those people came to the wrong conclusion. That’s usually the way it goes. Instead of focussing on the concept that somewhere, somehow, some Servicemember must have done something wrong, why don’t you take a second to be glad that one Marine who apparently didn’t do the wrong thing is not going to be punished solely based on partisan political rhetoric?
That’s pathetic, Casey, and you know it. We are fighting an enemy that has no compunction about attacking us from behind the skirts of women and children. That is what happened in this case. They will kill those women and children in a heartbeat if it suits them. They will and have killed our women, children and non-combatants willfully and knowingly. The real tragedy is when people like you and your men Obama and Murtha compare our actions and the actions of our troops to the actions of Al Qaeda. The evidence is that “the people of Iraq” have more than begun to realize that they have far more to fear from Al Qaeda than us and are increasingly turning against them.
My son is “over there” and when I hear stuff like this coming out of you, Obama, and Murtha it makes my blood boil.
I am always glad that a serviceman, or any US citizen, is not wrongly accussed or convicted. I am happy for this serviceman and his family. I just think it is ridiculous when someone states that a serviceman could never do something as horrific as was implied. Servicemen are people and represent a pretty good sample of US society as a whole. And that includes the negative elements. Given the conditions, stress, and the ages and maturities of the soldiers in combat operations, it is a wonder more of them don’t snap. So, who wouldn’t have thought it was true? Anyway, dismissing charges against one other solider doesn’t mean it didn’t happen…
"I just think it is ridiculous when someone states that a serviceman could never do something as horrific as was implied. "
Fortunately, no one implied that.
We are fighting an enemy that has no compunction about attacking us from behind the skirts of women and children. That is what happened in this case. They will kill those women and children in a heartbeat if it suits them.
You missed my point. It is precisely because of their willingness to kill us from behind the skirts of women and children, that we have no business being there. We are fighting the wrong enemy, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Our soldiers should be out looking for Osama bin Laden, not going door to door in Iraq, looking for insurgents, which is the position they are being put in. Incidents like Haditha are bound to happen when we use our military to fight a civil war.
They will and have killed our women, children and non-combatants willfully and knowingly.
We have also killed their women and children, only we call it collateral damage. We were sucked into this civil war due to poor planning, not escape plan, and a complete misunderstanding of who and why we are fighting. I have never blamed our military, I blame Bush and his administration for putting our soldiers in a losing position.
**The evidence is that “the people of Iraq” have more than begun to realize that they have far more to fear from Al Qaeda than us and are increasingly turning against them. **
Ummm, you may want to rethink that. We aligned ourselves with the Sunni militias (the same ones who we initially fought against) to keep Al Qaeda in check. The people of Iraq are disgruntled with Al Qaeda but the Sunni militias are gaining strength. The result will be Sunni militia against Shiite militia, with us caught in the middle. We are winning the battle against Al Qaeda (in Iraq), but it is going to come at a big price.
If you think the Sunni militias who are gaining strength but remain a minority in Iraq, will lay down their arms once Al Qaeda is no longer a threat, you are kidding yourself. Once again, we are getting involved by supporting one side and it is going to come back and bite us.
We are fighting an enemy that has no compunction about attacking us from behind the skirts of women and children. That is what happened in this case. They will kill those women and children in a heartbeat if it suits them.
You missed my point. It is precisely because of their willingness to kill us from behind the skirts of women and children, that we have no business being there. We are fighting the wrong enemy, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Our soldiers should be out looking for Osama bin Laden, not going door to door in Iraq, looking for insurgents, which is the position they are being put in. Incidents like Haditha are bound to happen when we use our military to fight a civil war.
So–all an enemy has to do is to use these cowardly tactics, and then we will have no business fighting them. Sounds like you just gave all our enemies a sure recipe for success there. Oh, and let’s stop all police chases, too.
They will and have killed our women, children and non-combatants willfully and knowingly.
We have also killed their women and children, only we call it collateral damage. We were sucked into this civil war due to poor planning, not escape plan, and a complete misunderstanding of who and why we are fighting. I have never blamed our military, I blame Bush and his administration for putting our soldiers in a losing position.
*Our soldiers are not in a “losing position,” if you listen to them. They believe they are winning and can win–if Congress will let them. *
**The evidence is that “the people of Iraq” have more than begun to realize that they have far more to fear from Al Qaeda than us and are increasingly turning against them. **
Ummm, you may want to rethink that. We aligned ourselves with the Sunni militias (the same ones who we initially fought against) to keep Al Qaeda in check. The people of Iraq are disgruntled with Al Qaeda but the Sunni militias are gaining strength. The result will be Sunni militia against Shiite militia, with us caught in the middle. We are winning the battle against Al Qaeda (in Iraq), but it is going to come at a big price.
If you think the Sunni militias who are gaining strength but remain a minority in Iraq, will lay down their arms once Al Qaeda is no longer a threat, you are kidding yourself. Once again, we are getting involved by supporting one side and it is going to come back and bite us.
I’m confused. Didn’t you say a while back there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq?
Your point being what? Are you implying that since other military folks have done bad things, that means the Haditha marines must be guilty? What did those particular events have to do with Haditha? No one on this thread has ever implied that the US military can do no wrong, yet it seems that others are convinced that the military is guilty of everything they are accused of, before so much as an investigation has taken place.
So much for being innocent until proven guilty…guess that sort of thing doesn’t count for our soldiers in combat…
Spot
***Our soldiers are not in a “losing position,” if you listen to them. They believe they are winning and can win–if Congress will let them. ***
Of course the soldiers will never admit being in a losing position, would you? This “war” cannot be won with guns, there has to be a political solution.
I am currently in Turkey and heading towards Iran and am daily in contact with people here with a far different perspective than the American media but one thing is consistent, what is happening in Iraq is not good. For example, the Kurds have negotiated a regional oil deal that will weaken if there is a national unity government, so they have no incentive to achieve that. The Shiite Miliatias (Mahdi army) control about 70% of Baghdad’s gas stations in what is becoming a large and powerful corporation. They also have no desire to share that power with Sunnis. Finally, the Sunnis, who were initially responsible for most of the attacks against our soldiers, are now being supported by our side to counter-balance the Shiites but all we are doing is helping one insurgency to fight off another.
No side has any incentive to follow a national government and Maliki has no authority with the people. We are there in the middle of all this, trying to balance one side against the other and that is a losing position. There is just no other way to spin it.
**I’m confused. Didn’t you say a while back there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq? **
I said there was no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq prior to us being there and the current presence is vastly overstated. The threat in Iraq is not Al Qaeda, it is the buildup of the various militia groups. We used to fight against the Sunni militias and now we are working with them but that is a dangerous precedent. On one side we are trying to suppor the government, backed by the Shiite majority, and on the other we are aligning with a Sunni group that have killed many of our soldiers and will do so again.
I am sorry your son is there, I really am, just as I am sorry for all the soldiers and their families who went there thinking they were doing the right thing because their intent was noble, it just isn’t going to work and we have to face up to that before more soldiers get killed.
the current presence is vastly overstated
I’m curious as to what information gives you this impression.
The threat in Iraq is not Al Qaeda, it is the buildup of the various militia groups.
I think you are oversimplifying things, and also not thinking ahead to what could happen if we weren’t there. There is definitely an Al Qaeda threat in Iraq, just as there is a Sunni insurgency threat, and a Shiite militia threat. There are also the Kurds up north that will defend their autonomy if pushed.
And what do you suppose will happen when we leave? Do you not think that in the chaos that follows, Iraq will not become another failed state (like Afghanistan) and a haven for Al Qaeda?
I do agree with your statement, though, that the only way to solve this is politically. As long as the central government in Baghdad is ineffective and seen to be beholden to any one group, chaos will reign.
Spot
After reading some of the comments on this thread I can’t help but feel that there are some people I never care to meet. This is nothing but good news. To a person, we should be happy that this Marine was cleared of the allegations. This is good news and nothing but good news. Yet, for some who have posted on this thread the news appears to be quite disappointing or at least not worth celebrating.