I’m not a dr. and I’m certainly not going to tell someone else that their dr. is wrong in prescribing anything.
Yes, there should be different standards.
Pros - level playing field. Rules are rules.
AGers - If the Dr. prescribes, it’s ok. Will people F with that and F with their health? Sure. Look at that outside mag article where the guy showed how easy it was to get peds prescribed and how much they worked. But USAT should not be in the business of second guessing drs for weekend warriors - even when prizes and kona slots are on the line. Like anything, someone will take advantage and screw someone else, but it’s a “greater good” situation.
If its legit and can be proven if that question arises, I see no issue with it. Some men with testicular or that have had injuries that required both testes to be removed get hormone replacement…
Say one of the top male athletes had his nads chomped off by a shark during the kona swim and now he is on testosterone replacement because his body doesnt produce it any longer and he wins or places well the next big race, is he a “CHEATER”, I think not. You use hormone replacement to bump up your levels if you fall out of the normal levels. Now if this person was grossly above the limits set by the sports guru’s, then maybe I would question it!
And remember, the high level set by sports peeps are higher then what is typically normal in the medical field. and that is because, yes, every one is just a bit different!
Just to clarify…I’m talking about people with otherwise healthy levels of hormones, etc…
Say AGers whose training imply a big drop of testosterone, epo etc…
should it be allowed for them to use supplementation, and not for pros?
Most studies have shown that testosterone levels increase with exercise…
and I say yes, if you have low levels and your doc determines that hormone replacement therapy will benefit you, then i say it is legit.
besides, if us age groupers all started takeing it, then maybe we would finally have all the “gear” that some of the pro’s are using…
I for one have never seen or heard of anybody being tested after a race, at least the ones that I do. Kona yes, they do…ITU races, I am sure they do. Any other Iroman sanctioned race??? Would Iroman corp waste their profit money on testing??? I dont know…do they? What about the guy or girl that races pro only in local or non sanctioned races,are they ever tested?
If there is no medical reason for the treatment, it’s doping. It doesn’t matter if it’s a pro or an age grouper. If there’s a legitimate medical reason, it’s acceptable, age grouper or pro.
I’m not sure I see the dilemma or how the question remains valid…if there is a medical reason, the answer is obvious. Same for if there is none. Just like if you take percocets for kicks or for a broken ankle.
Who here thinks that supplementation is ok, not doping? Should there be a different treatment for Pros and AGers?
No, I don’t think any form of doping for healthy people is OK. If prescribed by a dr. for a legit health condition and this medication is the best overall method of treatment then it is OK.
I do think that there should be a higher standard for Pros than AGers. Pros race in a different category than AGers in most races. They race for money, they are sponsored and compete for media attention for their sponsors. AGers race for fun. (yes, this is a generalization. I know that some AGers are sponsored and of course Pros race for fun too.)
I’m not saying that doping should be allowed for AGers, nor that the list of illegal products should be different for AGers than Pros. But, we can not expect race organizers and national federations to test AGers as they do Pros. So if there is no testing of AGers are they held to the same standard as the pros? Not really! Should AGers be tested as Pros?
I race because I enjoy training with a purpose and the act of racing itself. It makes me feel alive. I know that there will always be someone faster out there. If I should happen to win my AG it is only because that faster guy did not come to this particular race. If people in my AG are doping I would rather not know about it. If I am #2 to a doper I am fine with that as long as I don’t know about it. He is the one that has to live with being a doper in order to win. If I am #10 in a race and the #20 guy dopes I don’t give a shit as long as I don’t know about it. Now, if I thought that 8 of the top 10 in my AG or even half of the top 10 in my AG was doping that would be bad, but I don’t think that is the case. And if this was the case I would be happier not knowing about it.
So, should AGers be held to the same standards as Pros and by that tested like Pros? No, not in my opinion.
Interesting. Let me give a real life example from my daughter. She got her knee injuried from an accident in high school. We spent
years dealing with docs to deal with her issues. One key doctors comment was just leave it alone unless she wanted to be
athletic. Boy were we upset. Walking is athletic. Climbing stairs is athletic. We ended up getting her the surgery
to be able to have a decent quality of life.
All this has become such a gray area and most people have developed a deeply clouded perception of ethical values.
And we have covered this back and forth on the use of asthma medications in competitions (from an ethics perspective, there is no difference to Testo).
So to the posters who don’t see a problem with “leveling the playing field”: I hope they understand that they are actually saying that they want to have handed out first places to everyone who tows the line.
We ended up getting her the surgery to be able to have a decent quality of life.
Doesn’t that answer the question? Clearly, that was a medical condition, whether or not one doc’s opinion was that surgery wasn’t necessary to address it.
Most studies have shown that testosterone levels increase with exercise…
and I say yes, if you have low levels and your doc determines that hormone replacement therapy will benefit you, then i say it is legit.
besides, if us age groupers all started takeing it, then maybe we would finally have all the “gear” that some of the pro’s are using…
I for one have never seen or heard of anybody being tested after a race, at least the ones that I do. Kona yes, they do…ITU races, I am sure they do. Any other Iroman sanctioned race??? Would Iroman corp waste their profit money on testing??? I dont know…do they? What about the guy or girl that races pro only in local or non sanctioned races,are they ever tested?
Departamento de Ciencias Morfológicas y FisiologÃa, Universidad Europea de Madrid, Spain. alejandro.lucia@mrfs.cisa.uem.es
OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the hormonal response to strenuous endurance exercise performed by elite athletes. METHODS: Nine professional cyclists (mean (SD) age 28 (1) years; mean (SD) VO(2)MAX 75.3 (2.3) ml/kg/min) who participated in a three week tour race (Vuelta a España 1999) were selected as subjects. Morning urinary levels of 6-sulphatoxymelatonin (aMT6s) and morning serum levels of testosterone, follicle stimulating (FSH), luteinising hormone (LH), and cortisol were measured in each subject at t(0) (before the competition), t(1) (end of first week), t(2) (end of second week), and t(3) (end of third week). Urine samples of aMT6s were also evaluated in the evening at t(0), t(1), t(2), and t(3). RESULTS: Mean urinary aMT6s levels had increased significantly (p<0.01) during the day after each stage (1091 (33) v 683 (68) ng/ml at t(1); 955 (19) v 473 (53) ng/ml at t(2); 647 (61) v 337 (47) ng/ml at t(3)). Both morning and evening aMT6s levels decreased significantly during the study. A similar pattern was observed for morning serum levels of cortisol and testosterone. CONCLUSIONS: The results suggest that the basal activity of the pineal gland, adrenal glands, and testis may be decreased after consecutive days of intense, long term exercise.
** For 2 years so could walk, etc. with some pain. She could have lived with that forever technically.**
Respectfully, that *is *black and white. Some pain when walking is a medical problem, and it doesn’t matter if she could have lived with it for decades.
I don’t think that AGers should be taking anything that professionals are banned from taking. It’s probably illegal and definitely unethical. Plus, it’s just plain stupid to be taking PEDs so that you can win glory as an AGer at a local race. But, I do think that it makes a lot more sense not to test AGers. It’s my understanding that running quality tests costs a great deal of money, and race fees are expensive enough as is without having RDs pay for drug testing. I race both to give myself a goal to keep training and as a reward for the training itself so I really don’t care whether I lose to something because they are doping. I’ll still be practicing law as a profession and providing for my family that way when I’m done. I might feel differently if I were trying to do something like qualify for Kona and lost out to someone that was doping.
