Strategy for a tune-up HM? [UPDATE: WITH RESULTS]

Triathlon Forum
1

I’ll be attempting a BQ at the end of August (8/27), and my training plan (Higdon Advanced 1) calls for a tune-up HM. The plan has it at week 9, but I’ll be running it this weekend (5/28) at the end of week 5. FWIW, the BQ attempt will be my first ever marathon, although I’ve completed a number of HM’s and HIM’s and in the past. I have slowly increased mileage since Feb, running 51 miles last week, with an expectation of peaking around 60-70 mpw in July.

My BQ time is 3:05 so I’ll be shooting for sub 3:02 and I’ve been training accordingly. Training has been consistent and in line with expectations. Assuming 26.4 miles, MP should be in the 6:50 - 6:55 range. To give some idea of recent workouts, I recently ran a 13 mile long run @ 8:04/mi on 147 avg HR (max is 205+) and an 8.75 mile run w/ 5 miles @ 6:45/mi on 164 avg HR (for the whole run). Last year, I ran the same HM, in worse shape and weighing a good 10 pounds more, in 1:36 on a 186 avg HR.

What I’m wondering is how I should strategically run this race. In general, if I truly race something, I give it everything I’ve got and I can barely walk the next day. While I know this would be the best indicator of my current fitness, I feel like the hit to training is not worth it when my real goal is to BQ on 8/27. On the other hand, I obviously want to run hard enough that I can get a decent feel for where I am at this point.

So I’m asking for the collective wisdom of ST to help me decide between the 3 options below:
1. Race the HM - go all out looking for a sub 1:25 time, with a likely 3-5 day impact on training
2. Progression Run - run the first 10-15k at MP, then build pace into the finish where I’d be around 10k pace, with a likely 1-2 day impact on training
3. Marathon Test Run - run it like it’s the first half of the marathon, taking gels and keeping it at MP looking to finish as fresh as possible, with no material impact on training

Currently, I’d say I’m leaning towards #2 or #3. To be perfectly honest, there’s a good chance that even if I plan on doing #3, I will end up running it as #2. If there’s a chance I’m competitive in the AG or I just feel really good, I would probably push the pace, knowing myself. But I also feel like planning on #3 and actually running #2 is less bad than planning on #2 and racing the whole thing because I got sucked into a lead(ish) pack that happened to be just a little bit faster than my planned pace.

2

26.4 miles?

3

Typical rule of thumb is to assume 26.4 miles run on a certified marathon course. This is due to a combination of turns and GPS margin of error. It would suck to hit 26.2 on my watch at the targeted time, only to have 0.2 miles left on the course, so I’m working that into the equation.

4

The course is 26.2 miles. You don’t need GPS.

5

The course is 26.2 miles. Running only 26.2 miles and managing to cross the finish line is more difficult than you would think, whether you wear a watch or not. Here’s a better explanation.

6

As someone who’s just run a marathon in the middle of IM training, I’d strongly advise #3. Run it at your marathon goal pace and you’ll have a really good indication of whether that pace is realistic for the full distance, with minimal ongoing impact on your training schedule.

Option #1 might be a nice confidence boost to set a half-marathon PB, but it’s not going to be a guaranteed indicator of your potential over the full distance and the risk of picking up a niggle or injury could easily mean more than your planned 3-5 day impact on training. I’d say option #2 and is the worst of both worlds; impacts on future training and the variable pace muddies the water and might make it hard to determine what is a realistic pace for full marathon distance.

7

For the HM:

Is there any chance of a nice award (like cash, gift certificates, beer, etc) if you place overall or in your age group? Based on what you think you can do as compared to results from previous years, do you think running competitively will get you in the awards?

I raced an HM on Sunday (with way less base training than you have). While I’m taking a down/lower mileage week to recover, I don’t consider it lost time. I feel like I’ve gained from racing and not holding back. (Money and pride were on the line). Next week, I will be better off than I was 2 weeks ago for running fitness even though my legs took a beating in the HM. I suppose I should note that it was a flat course, so the beating wasn’t as bad as it would have been if there were hills.

8

As someone that has a hard time going easy in a race environment (or any environment with people in front of me), I would suggest you do #3. If you get to the last 5k and feel great, you may want to loosen the reins a bit. But under no circumstances should you do #1.

9

Shoot for 90 minutes and kick it up a notch if you feel good with two miles to go.

10

HTFU and race it. #1

11

I’ll say option #1. It’s a race, RACE it! You’ll get a good test of where your fitness is and where it has to go. Basically, you can plug your time into a calculator and see what it translates to with proper marathon training. If you don’t race it, you won’t get a valuable data point about where you stand right now.

Then you can take a few days after the race easy and go from there. It’s so far away from your marathon that you have plenty of time to recover from the HM and continue with the plan. If the HM was 2 weeks out from your marathon, it’s a different story.

12

you are far enought and racing is a very good learning experience. No, excuses, race it and get a real assessment of your current fitness.

also, important to train to improve your current fitness…vs training to maintain a specific ‘‘goal pace’’.

13

There’s enough time between now & the marathon. It’s probably your last chance to turn the wick up a little.

I’d say between #1 & #2, go PR hunting.

14

If your weekly run mileage has went up significantly since your last HM (which it sounds like it has) you may be pleasantly surprised that your run legs are not near as beat up post race as they were previously, even if you choose number 1.

I think all 3 of your options add a certain amount of value to your overall plan, but you don’t really need a “race” atmosphere to do option 2 or 3. If you have paid the entry fee and committed to the race, I say go let it rip. Imagine the confidence boost you get if you go sub 1:25.

15

Half mary? I’d go race it. You can also test your ability to recover by going hard. Cut the run mileage for the following week and you should be fine.

16

You paid so race. You can do 2/3 any training day on your own.

17

In my experience with Hal Higdon plans, he wants you to go race the distance. Otherwise he would just list it as another 13 mile run. You really shouldn’t be worried about a 13 miler (even a hard one) when you’re putting in 50 mile weeks. I agree with others above: HTFU and go race :slight_smile:

18

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I think it is important for me to keep it in perspective that the goal here is the BQ, not the race this weekend. I appreciate all the different view points, and in general I lean towards the HTFU school of thought, but this situation is really about balancing costs and benefits. Is the expected cost of RACING on Sunday really greater than the expected benefit? For me, I don’t think it is.

My plan, as of right now, is to go out around 6:50/mi, maybe a even a bit slower over the first mile or two, since that’s how I plan to race my BQ attempt. If around 8-10 miles I’m feeling fresh and I feel like I can pick off some of the competition, I’ll probably pick up the pace a bit. Ultimately, it will be a game time decision, but I’m really really going to try to keep my pride in check here, since I honestly believe my best chance at a BQ is to run a smart, restrained race.

Here’s my take on a selection of the opinions expressed above:
“HM PB will be a nice confidence boost” – I don’t need the confidence boost. I don’t mean that to sound cocky, I just feel that I will derive more confidence if I can execute the best training plan possible. Some people do need confidence that they can run a certain distance or a certain pace before they run an event, but I don’t see it the same way. In general, I think “building confidence” before a race is often used as an excuse to do something that’s not necessarily the smartest thing to do, rather than finding confidence in the work you’ve done up to that point. My workouts in the month prior to the BQ attempt will do more for my confidence than a certain time on Sunday.
**“Is there any chance of a nice award?” **-- I don’t think so. AG goes 2 deep, and there’s no indication of any cash or gift certificate. There IS free beer after the race, but ironically, the faster I run, the LESS likely I am to partake.
“It is important to train to improve your current fitness rather than training to maintain a specific goal pace” – Absolutely! Ideally, I’d be a 2:40 guy who could cruise to a sub 3:02, but that’s just not the case. The faster I am on race day, the greater my margin of safety to meet the standard. No doubt, I’m running according to what my body says I can do, and I’ll circle back to BQ-day pacing strategy in another 12 weeks when I know where I stand.
“You paid to race, so go race” – Actually, in my mind, I’ve paid to participate in an event that will increase my probability of success at the BQ attempt. For me, this means I paid for a closed course (well, mostly closed to traffic) that is marked, certified, and supported. I have paid far more for the August marathon, which requires travel as well, so that’s the race fee I care about justifying with a RACE, not this one.
“Higdon wants you to race the distance” – This one almost changed my mind. Listen to the coach and trust the process, I totally agree. Then again, the longest MP run in the Advanced 1 plan is 10 miles, so 13+ at or above MP, even if not all at HM pace, still seems like a big day, especially for week 5. One other thing to note, which I didn’t mention earlier, is that I believe my shorter-distance stuff is highly likely to overestimate my ability on the marathon. I know this is a common issue, especially using McMillan, but for this reason, I’ve modified the plan to use 1600m repeats rather than 800m on similar rest (note: I run similar distance, so if the plan calls for 3-4 x 800 I run 2 x 1600, 5-6 x 800 is 3 x 1600, etc. with rest equal to half the interval time). So in a similar vein, I think the true all-out HM will overstate my effective MP by some (hard-to-quantify) amount, which limits the potential utility I would derive.

Again, I really appreciate all the great feedback I received. I know that I’m going against best practice trying to BQ on my first marathon, but I feel like a well-executed training plan supplemented with the vast knowledge base of ST will get me through it and give me a decent chance.

19

you race it.

you will not ruin your training for marathon.

you will get a valid test of fitness.

you can then set training paces according to something real.

you are months away from the marathon…its nt like it is just 2 weeks away or something. If you cant recover from a hard HM in a few days that will tell you something right there about fitness.

you will get confidence

and by the way…1600 repeats are not the same as 800 meter repeats. you are not getting full effect of the workout higdon is suggestion.

20

and by the way…1600 repeats are not the same as 800 meter repeats. you are not getting full effect of the workout higdon is suggestion.

Can you expand on this? I’d like to understand what I’m missing.

If the workout is prescribed as 5 x 800 @ 3:00 (on 3:00 rest), and I run 3 x 1600 @ 6:00 (on 3:00 rest) instead, why do I not receive the full effect of the workout? Essentially, I’m just doing some repeats on full rest and some on no rest, right?