Anybody wish they had ridden their slack angled road bike with clip ons instead of steep seat angled Tri bikes at IMLP. I do. It felt like speed was just scrubbing off on the climbs. I know it’s said that steep angles can climb as well, but I’m beginning to doubt that theory. Great on the flat to rolling but not quite enough power transfer on the hilly courses. Thoughts anyone?
My buddy raced there this year for the first time and rode a P2K. He commented when he returned home that he wished he had a Soloist instead because of the hills. In fact he’s putting the P2K up for sale and is replacing it with a Soloist for next year’s race.
"I’m beginning to doubt that theory. "
I never believed it to begin with. My TCR always out climbs my P2K. The tri bike is fine on hills that I can stay on the aero bars but once the hills are too steep for this and I have to sit up, then the steep angle bike just doesn’t have it.
For fear of sounding glib I am equally slow going up hills on either bike, makes no difference at all and I have tested it on more than one occasion.
| My buddy raced there this year for the first time and rode a P2K. He commented when he returned home that he wished he had a Soloist instead because of the hills. In fact he’s putting the P2K up for sale and is replacing it with a Soloist for next year’s race.
Well, The Soloist was the bike of choice of none other than Mr. Lessing.
I know the science (ala Emps work) is that you run better off the steep angles, but in '00 when I did IMLP I was 13 min. faster on my standard road geometry vs. this year on a 78 degree aero bike. 13 min. is a lot of time to spot the Marathon.
Interesting points. When I climbed Ventoux two weeks ago, I actually slid my seat back around 7 mm from the 76 degrees that I had ridden my Kestrel 200 at for a large chunk of the season. Turns out that halfway up the climb, I got off my bike and actually jacked my seat back forward and suddenly I was climbing faster as I could turn my pedals over quicker and maintain a higher RPM. On the lower parts of Ventoux I was struggling down in the low 70 RPM range in a 34x26 gear with a slacker angle, but on the upper half I felt great up at 85 to 100 RPM at a steeper angle still in the same 34x26 gear. Then again, the final third of Ventoux is not as steep as the bottom part, so this and the lack of adaptation to the slacker angle may explain why I wanted to go back to the steeper position. Interestingly enough, when I look at pro peleton riders do sustained 1 hour climbs, some of the fastest climbers are the likes of Lance and Virenque, who seem to ride relatively forward compared to their peers with a very open hip angle.
Well might not be so unusal if you consider that you are use to the sitting in a certan place. Furthermore, the relationship between your hips, knees and pedal works for you in at a given seat angle, if you change one of the components you may have moved away from your ideal “fit” for want of a better word and therefore become less effective. So the seat angle issue is a bit of a red herring. This is kind of like much of the discussion on the Lessing rides a slack Soloist (v steep) thread earlier
This is about as unscientific as one can get, but last year I did a very hilly half IM in the North Georgia mountains on Giant road bike with shorty clip ons. Did the same race this year on a 76* tri bike. I used the same wheels in both races (Mavic Cosmic front, Renn rear). I was 20 minutes faster this year than last year. That could in part be due to being better shape, but that’s still quite a bit of time. Especially considering that I did more hill specific training last year than I did this year. I’m don’t know what to think about one bike “climbing” better than another bike. I thought the rider did the climbing, not the bike.
RP
for me, i found success on a steep config p2k equipped with an arione tri and compact cranks. during the climbs, i sat further back on the saddle, utilizing the extra rear length and spun at a very low gear, and that helped me get up the climbs fine. everyone’s situation is different, but i think steep can work for some people. plus i’m more of a runner, so a steep setup was more optimal for me for the overall race.
Simple S, I agree with your points. I just thought that over a 90 min sustained climb, riding slacker would be better (with or without adaptation). Then again, riding at 75 degrees or so, is not super slack. I should have slammed the saddle right back on the rails to 73 degrees and gone to a totally different position (rather than being somewhat close to what I was used to) and perhaps the results would be different. Riding close to the position you are accustomed to but not exactly in your regular position might actually be worse than riding totally differently as your brain gets feedback that is similar to what you are used to and tries to fire the legs, at the points that you are used to, but are always slightly off. Better to go to something totally different in may cases !
I am not sure about your suggestion. I tried a number of different set ups on the road bike and tri bike and always found there was a sweet spot for cadence, power and comfort. It related to not the seat angle but to the reach to the pedals (not sure that makes any sense) Basically if the 3 and 6 oclock positions was a bit off (too far forward mostly or a bit too high, not so much a problem if its behind me as in a real steep position) I would go slower. I can obtain the sweet spot on both bikes but of course they are ridden slightly differently (aero bars v hoods) and the both bikes measure differently and set up differently.
Well, The Soloist was the bike of choice of none other than Mr. Lessing.
Anyone know what Larsen rode in 2001? I found this, but it didn’t specify the frame model.
Larsen rode a P3. it isn’t the angle it’s the engine.
I agree that the engine is the most important component and also that the gearing is probably way more important than the seat tube angle.
It is kind of silly to wonder about something that is so easy to test.
I borrowed a beautiful Serotta up in LP and I rode the 12 mile loop that they use for the mini triathlons there. I did the loop in 39:38 on the Serotta.
I then did the loop later in the day and the following day on my P3. Both times were 36:15.
That is how it works for me, but you may be different. I have definite flexibility problems, and I need the steep seat angle to get low. More flexible people can probably get a great aero position on a road bike. Not me.
Try it out. For me the answer was obvious.
People often talk about choosing a style of frame based on road or tri, each with it’s supposed benefits. tri better on the rolling flatter shorter courses, slack for hills etc. To me this is only part of the jig saw. Each person’s anatomy can also influence whether tri or slack geometry suits them better. My femur and lower leg are almost the same length and I find that steeper frames enable me to spin better whether climbing or on the flats. I know a guy whose femur is much longer than his lower leg, he needs a 71deg frame to feel like he can spin comfortably. I guess choosing a frame is complicated and this is where professional help is well professional help.
Manko, the man with no name