I’m beginning to put my plan together for my 16 week training block for IM Maryland. I want to include a lot of steady state runs (instead of interval work). Any suggestions on how much I should include? I was thinking 2 runs 8-10 miles per week with 3/4 at steady state pace.
May be more efficient to put it all in one run - go 8 miles, SS after a 15 min warm up…You could make this run and another longish run your staple workouts, all the rest at your easy pace. Or you could rotate the weeks, week one have 2 SS runs, week two 1 SS and 1 long.
Thanks…what kind of pace do you think is good? It seems everyone has conflicting paces for steady state runs. I was thinking slightly faster than marathon pace or marathon pace.
The pace depends on your ability, but SS pace is slower than tempo pace. For me, my tempo runs are about 7:00-7:20 pace, SS would be more like 7:30-7:40 pace. Something slightly faster than your open marathon pace.
Go to here and plug in your numbers http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/
I was using mcmillan running calculator but I know some suggest open marathon pace.
Thanks…what kind of pace do you think is good? It seems everyone has conflicting paces for steady state runs. I was thinking slightly faster than marathon pace or marathon pace.
yes it depends what you mean by “steady state” - as you say - multiple opinions. Anyway, the key thing is to get more race specific as you get closer to race day. So if you do them at marathon pace over the next few weeks, switch to Ironman pace closer to the race, and run for longer. I personally like doing long negative split runs, for example 16 miles out and back, with the “out” 8 miles being comfortable/slow (marathon + 1 min) and the “back” 8 miles being 8 x 1 mile @ marathon pace with 30 seconds walking in between. Or build up to make it longer (20 miles) with the “back” being at Ironman pace (still 1 mile intervals with brief rest each mile). I also throw in a few “steady” runs @ IM pace between 10-16 miles.
As for frequency, I personally can only handle 2 “long runs” per week. One run will be about 13 miles and the other one 16-18 miles (I’m talking about during IM build, that’s not my normal week)
I like to cap my long runs at 15-16 miles. I really find frequency and volume per week to better suit me for IM training. I really feel the steady state runs help with the ironman run without beating you up like interval work.
Looking at McMillan, Steady State looks like Zone 3 marathon or 70.3 pace.
I always forget that “Tempo” in the running world is Zone 4/Threshold pace
Honestly, that’s all I’ve been doing for faster stuff, some longer tempo efforts… and I’m pretty satisfied with my results. A 4’ 1/2 marathon PR this last weekend has me pretty excited about the rest of the race season. It really shocked me that I was holding threshold pace for the first 6 miles and wasn’t all that fatigued. Then I hit another hill around mile 7 and small rollers for the next 4 miles… and that changed quickly. Pacing makes a big difference. I didn’t pace well, but still rolled a solid time without going to the pain cave with a 70.3 coming up in 3 weeks, no need for heroics in the final 5k.
I’ve posted it in another thread, but my 1/2 marathon PR was done with a long run of just 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 & 6 over the previous 8 weeks due to an injury in Feb going into March. But weekly mileage had been built back up to 40-45mpw running 6 days a week. The base I built running 45-60mpw through November - Jan carried over well.
Thanks BarryP.
It seems like most of the FOP age group guys I’ve talked to are doing maybe 1 run a week of steady state, 1 longer run and the rest are shorter recovery runs just to keep mileage up and not impact their bike training.
The more fast stuff you do running, the less you can do cycling and since fatigue form running requires more recovery, your overall weekly training load will drop.
I like to cap my long runs at 15-16 miles. I really find frequency and volume per week to better suit me for IM training. I really feel the steady state runs help with the ironman run without beating you up like interval work.
yeah, but what I’m suggesting will beat you up even less i.e. break up the 2nd half of your run into 1 mile segments with 15-30 sec walking between each one. The 1 mile segments are not done fast, they are done at IM pace (the same pace you would have done your steady state?)
Looking at McMillan, Steady State looks like Zone 3 marathon or 70.3 pace.
I always forget that “Tempo” in the running world is Zone 4/Threshold pace
Honestly, that’s all I’ve been doing for faster stuff, some longer tempo efforts… and I’m pretty satisfied with my results. A 4’ 1/2 marathon PR this last weekend has me pretty excited about the rest of the race season. It really shocked me that I was holding threshold pace for the first 6 miles and wasn’t all that fatigued. Then I hit another hill around mile 7 and small rollers for the next 4 miles… and that changed quickly. Pacing makes a big difference. I didn’t pace well, but still rolled a solid time without going to the pain cave with a 70.3 coming up in 3 weeks, no need for heroics in the final 5k.
I’ve posted it in another thread, but my 1/2 marathon PR was done with a long run of just 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 & 6 over the previous 8 weeks due to an injury in Feb going into March. But weekly mileage had been built back up to 40-45mpw running 6 days a week. The base I built running 45-60mpw through November - Jan carried over well.
Thanks BarryP.
It seems like most of the FOP age group guys I’ve talked to are doing maybe 1 run a week of steady state, 1 longer run and the rest are shorter recovery runs just to keep mileage up and not impact their bike training.
The more fast stuff you do running, the less you can do cycling and since fatigue form running requires more recovery, your overall weekly training load will drop.
How long are you doing these runs? And how many?
I got injured in early Feb as mentioned and it took almost 6 weeks until i could really start normal run training again, and even then, my focus was on rebuilding mileage first.
I will say, that doing too much steady state and mixing these zone 3 efforts with long runs and increased bike training contributed to my training… along with messing with zero drop shoes.
Now I’m doing 1 of these a week, but usually as a brick of a longer tempo ride or short hard ride. This summer I’ll probably drop the bricks and do 1 of these a week and maybe every other week add a track workout as well. I do think some faster 5k pace efforts could help my run economy a little.
So as a brick it might be 4-7 miles.
As a stand alone run it will be 7-9 miles. During my run focus in Nov -Jan., I was doing 10-12 miles as my medium runs (BarryP Plan) and the 2nd half of the run would Zone 3, but probably just a little slower than steady state. I probably didn’t have enough polarity in my running, and still might not now.
But overall, it’s something I’ll just “feel out”. If there’s anything my injury taught me, its’ that you need to listen to your body and be willing to adjust your plan. Consistency and injury prevention are your top 2 priorities. For example the 1/2 Mary last weekend beat me up a LOT more than I had planned. Just “pushing through” my training plan would be stupid. So I moved a few things around and I’ll still have to feel it out. IF I get to my long run this week (just 10 miles since I’m tapering) and I’m not feeling fully recovered, I’ll drop the distance. Of course recovery definitely takes longer when your still trying to get in hard rides. I couldn’t believe how tight my hip flexors were when I tried to ride Monday morning for the first time after the race. It took a longer than usual warm-up to make descent power in the aero position.
switch to Ironman pace closer to the race, and run for longer
The only problem with this is IM pace for the majority of people is often slower than their normal daily run pace.
The only problem with this is IM pace for the majority of people is often slower than their normal daily run pace.
This is exactly what I struggled with when figuring IM training. If I were to run all my long runs at IM run pace, I’d be plodding around hating running more with every step. I no longer will run at IM pace for long runs (over 15). Set your training paces based on benchmarks (races, intervals, etc.). From those paces your IM run goal. I would use my IM pace as my easy recovery run pace or my brick pace after a long ride.
switch to Ironman pace closer to the race, and run for longer
The only problem with this is IM pace for the majority of people is often slower than their normal daily run pace.
I was just thinking it was probably ineffective to spend time training to “shuffle” 
.
switch to Ironman pace closer to the race, and run for longer
The only problem with this is IM pace for the majority of people is often slower than their normal daily run pace.
I agree. IM pace would be too easy for me. I need more of a stimulus to get faster and stronger as a runner without beating myself up. I guess that is why I really think a steady state run 1-2x a week would be beneficial. It has some endurance aspects to it as well as some speed gains. Maybe throw in some strides or fartleks here and there for turnover and speed but thats it. The rest of the runs would be easy and build mileage/time on the feet.
A very simple way to look at this is working around pure Marathon pace, if you’re capable of adding intensity to your running for an IM build then it is easy to identify a few paces that will work. Say if you can target a 3:30 pure marathon, which might be between 3:45-4:00 at IM.
Long run with variations of 5km at Marathon pace or just below or descending (4:50-5:00) or sustained longer work at 95-105% of M pace.
Sustained longer tempo at 4:45 pace.
Longer intervals 2-3km at 4:30 pace.
Maurice
The #1 goal of training for IM should be to raise your threshold paces as high as possible. There is a strong correlation between 10k time and marathon time. If you look at the correlation between 5k time and marathon time the correlation is not as strong.
The #1 way to insure that you have the capability to run fast off the bike in your next IM is to drive your run fitness as high as you possibly can. Take 2 people with same running genetics. The person who drives their 10k time to say 38:30 (to choose a number) will very rarely have to worry about the person who only does the training to get to 44:20 (just choosing another number) on the run leg of the IM all things being equal up until that point.
What DD said.
If you’re a better runner over 10k to half Mary, you’ll be a better IM runner - or at least have the chance to be.
For many years I used a weekly Steady (upper Z2 - just a hair slower than open Mary pace) of 8-16 miles (w occasional 18,19,20,22 at the end of an IM build) as one of the foundations of my run training, and it worked very well for me.
This also happened to be pretty close to my best-case HIM run pace - so that was great, very specific run training for HIMs
(Of which I did a ton more than IM)
I would generally use some of my daily “filler” runs of 4-6m very ez to dial in “IM race pace” - since that actual pace is more like a recovery run for 90%+ of the IM population.
YMMV.
I agree. IM pace would be too easy for me. I need more of a stimulus to get faster and stronger as a runner without beating myself up. I guess that is why I really think a steady state run 1-2x a week would be beneficial. It has some endurance aspects to it as well as some speed gains. Maybe throw in some strides or fartleks here and there for turnover and speed but thats it. The rest of the runs would be easy and build mileage/time on the feet.
Why not do your long runs at IM pace, and do your short ones faster? Makes no sense to have the longer session also be fast (and exhausting, and of limited gain) yet have the short ones also slow and therefore insignificant. You’re racing an Ironman - unless you’re already elite, you don’t need speed, you need the raw strength and resilience to survive a marathon after a few hours of cycling.
Several of the fastest guys I know - two who knocked out sub-2:50 marathons and several who routinely do sub-3 in their open marathons - do a lot of their running “slow”. As in, they race under 4min/km, but run their long runs at 5-5:30min/km (that’s ~6min/mile race pace and training above 8min/mile). Why? Because it builds strength and aerobic performance with less recovery required to run again the next day. Their intervals can reach 5:30min/mile, and a tempo might be somewhere in the middle - but the “bread and butter” workouts for these KQ athletes are dull, boring long runs at conversation pace.
switch to Ironman pace closer to the race, and run for longer
The only problem with this is IM pace for the majority of people is often slower than their normal daily run pace.
I was just thinking it was probably ineffective to spend time training to “shuffle”
I don’t train the shuffle… it comes naturally 