What would the Universe look like if it wasn’t perfect?
I would think that there would be much more randomness. There wouldn’t be laws that science can count on for things to make sense. If that makes sense…
I disagree. You can believe in the Bible and in God and not believe that the world was actually created in 7 of our days, for example. The Bible was not written by God. It was written by men who are not infallible. It is possible that they put their own spin on things and did not necessarily write down everything that God demanded or wanted, but rather their own interpretation of things.
I believe there are many Christians who believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings, but don’t agree with every single word of the Bible.
The absolute very core of the Holy Book is that it is with out question 100% the absolute word of God in every letter and every verse, written by the hands of desciples chosen by God himself to write his Holy word. Every church I’ve been in believed this to be the truth, the way, the only way.
Considering that the Gospels were written well after Jesus died by people who weren’t even eye witness, how were the writings established to be the “absolute word of God”? That claim was something made by the men who were trying to establish a church and consolidate their power. Establishing your entire belief system on a proclamation made by some men 1700 years ago is a pretty shaky foundation.
Yup one of the reasons I left.
Here’s page that goes into some detail about it. Scroll down to the conclusion
Every church I’ve been in believed this to be the truth, the way, the only way.
Which churches have you been in? Do you think that those churches truly represent the wide breadth of Christianity? I say this as a church employee, presently at a church which holds that the Bible is the inspired word of God (2 Timothy 3:16). I would say that on many matters of pure historical accuracy (i.e. Earth created in 7 days, ~6000 years ago), many (perhaps most) Christians don’t hold to a absolutely literalist reading of the Bible.
(BTW, finding an anti-evolution website hardly disproves the fact that tens of millions of Christians believe that evolution occurs).
Unfortunately, there are a lot of churches that aren’t Bible teaching churches. The Bible also warns about “luke-warm” and false churches.
Read the page I posted above. In other words the bible is the truth, the word of God and must be followed as written.
Where is Jedi?
#10 
~Matt
You are clearly operating on a belief system that did not know of the existence of midi-chlorians. You need to adapt to the new (and completely fucking asinine) information that we have gathered.
Yes, you’d better watch out for us heathens. All we want is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Run!
I read it, (and responded to it, CARM represents the far-right wing of Christianity) If you really need to have all Christians fit into your particular definition, so that you can reject it more easily, that is your decision. My question stands, which churches have you attended (which denominations)? Do you really believe that those churches that you have attended represent the full range of Christian theological belief?
I read it, (and responded to it) If you really need to have all Christians fit into your particular definition, so that you can reject it more easily, that is your decision. My question stands, which churches have you attended (which denominations)? Do you really believe that those churches represent the full range of Christian theological belief?
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
Every church I’ve been in believed this to be the truth, the way, the only way.
Which churches have you been in? Do you think that those churches truly represent the wide breadth of Christianity? I say this as a church employee, presently at a church which holds that the Bible is the inspired word of God (2 Timothy 3:16). I would say that on many matters of pure historical accuracy (i.e. Earth created in 7 days, ~6000 years ago), many (perhaps most) Christians don’t hold to a absolutely literalist reading of the Bible.
How can a book claim it’s own authority as the inspired word of a deity who is silent on the matter? If I write a book and in it I claim that my book is infallable or that it’s inspired by God, no sane person is going to believe that to be true. I’m asking seriously, not as criticism or sarcasm.
This is an identical situation. Second Timothy is of questionable authorship, probably written 100-150 years after the death of Jesus and the choice to include it in the Bible was a decision made by fallible men. Yet this is sufficient evidence that the random collection of books must be the inspired word of God (literal or not)?
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
Thanks, and do you believe that those churches represent the full range of Christian theological belief? (second part of the question).
(BTW, I’ve gone to Pentecostal churches, and in general, Free Methodist and Salvation Army line up with them as among the most conservative)
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
Thanks, and do you believe that those churches represent the full range of Christian theological belief? (second part of the question).
Ok obviously not, but aren’t you opening up a huge can of worms?. Please explain what parts do we believe and what parts do we not. Is John 3:16 still true, Is Christ still the only way into heaven? And then what’s the point of believing in God and heaven if the book he left for you isn’t the absolute truth.
What would the Universe look like if it wasn’t perfect?
I would think that there would be much more randomness. There wouldn’t be laws that science can count on for things to make sense. If that makes sense…
Which is sort of ironic (not that you necessarily believe this) that often religious people object to the random bit about evolution and say that is one reason they reject that humans and I guess other organisms could have evolved
I think there is a good bit of randomness, I think we have a whole realm of mathematics now to deal with it, chaos theory, and the like. The way I look at it is if it wasn’t the case that there was order, then the structures of the Universe and life as we know it wouldn’t exist. Now maybe in alternative Universes things could be different but I think we are always left with the problem that if you observe things as they are and those are dependent on the order that exists in the Universe then you’re going to conclude that it was designed to create things as they are, and you’re just trapped in a circular logic argument as things couldn’t be other than they are given the order in the Universe.
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
I grew up in the Army and I can tell you that while I know some people that are hard line, you must believe everything word as it’s written. Many more in the Army are more flexible in their beliefs. I have heard many Officers preach that some things such as earth was made in 7 days are not to be taken literally.
but aren’t you opening up a huge can of worms?
Of course not, I am simply acknowledging that particular can of worms exists and it is called “reality.” As for your complaint that I am not fitting your definition of what a Christian must believe, … Sorry about that.
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
I grew up in the Army and I can tell you that while I know some people that are hard line, you must believe everything word as it’s written. Many more in the Army are more flexible in their beliefs. I have heard many Officers preach that some things such as earth was made in 7 days are not to be taken literally.
Can you say more about the Salvation Army?
I literally had no idea this was a Christian religious group until the last couple of years. I thought they were just a charity organization. I was completely clueless, which bugs me, that somehow I had never come across that info.
You can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe in the Bible in it’s totality.
Were the disciples/apostles and their followers Christians? How about the people in the subsequent ~30 years after Jesus rose and ascended?
The reason I ask is because the Bible as a cohesive and agreed upon entity doesn’t take form, such that it could be believed in its totality, until around the 3rd or 5th century, depending on how you define the Biblical canon.
Free Methodist and the Salvation Army
I grew up in the Army and I can tell you that while I know some people that are hard line, you must believe everything word as it’s written. Many more in the Army are more flexible in their beliefs. I have heard many Officers preach that some things such as earth was made in 7 days are not to be taken literally.
Can you say more about the Salvation Army?
I literally had no idea this was a Christian religious group until the last couple of years. I thought they were just a charity organization. I was completely clueless, which bugs me, that somehow I had never come across that info.
Like what exactly? The beliefs? Its a Christian church that has a focus of bringing the word to people in need.
Here are the Articles of Faith for the Army. Their 11 core beliefs.
We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice. 2.
We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship. 3.
We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory. 4.
We believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the Divine and human natures are united, so that He is truly and properly God and truly and properly man. 5.
We believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocence, but by their disobedience, they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall, all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God. 6.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has by His suffering and death made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will may be saved. 7.
We believe that repentance toward God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and regeneration by the Holy Spirit are necessary to salvation. 8.
We believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believeth hath the witness in himself. 9.
We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ. 10.
We believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
11.
We believe in the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the body, in the general judgment at the end of the world, in the eternal happiness of the righteous, and in the endless punishment of the wicked.
Here are what “Senior Soldiers” agree to.
ARTICLES OF WAR (A Soldier’s Covenant)
Having accepted Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord, and desiring to fulfil my membership of His Church on earth as a soldier of The Salvation Army, I now by God’s grace enter into a sacred covenant.
I believe and will live by the truths of the word of God expressed in The Salvation Army’s eleven articles of faith: (link)
I will be responsive to the Holy Spirit’s work and obedient to His leading in my life, growing in grace through worship, prayer, service and the reading of the Bible. I will make the values of the Kingdom of God and not the values of the world the standard for my life.
I will uphold Christian integrity in every area of my life, allowing nothing in thought, word or deed that is unworthy, unclean, untrue, profane, dishonest or immoral.
I will maintain Christian ideals in all my relationships with others; my family and neighbours, my colleagues and fellow salvationists, those to whom and for whom I am responsible, and the wider community.
I will uphold the sanctity of marriage and of family life. I will be a faithful steward of my time and gifts, my money and possessions, my body, my mind and my spirit, knowing that I am accountable to God.
I will abstain from alcoholic drink, tobacco, the non-medical use of addictive drugs, gambling, pornography, the occult and all else that could enslave the body or spirit.
I will be faithful to the purposes for which God raised up The Salvation Army, sharing the good news of Jesus Christ, endeavouring to win others to Him, and in His name caring for the needy and the disadvantaged.
I will be actively involved, as I am able, in the life, work, worship and witness of the corps, giving as large a proportion of my income as possible to support its ministries and the worldwide work of the Army.
I will be true to the principles and practices of The Salvation Army, loyal to its leaders, and I will show the spirit of salvationism whether in times of popularity or persecution.
I now call upon all present to witness that I enter into this covenant and sign these articles of war of my own free will, convinced that the love of Christ, who died and now lives to save me, requires from me this devotion of my life to His service for the salvation of the whole world; and therefore do here declare my full determination, by God’s help, to be a true soldier of The Salvation Army.
Also describe your perception of god or equivalent. This may include:
Human beings are naturally “Spiritual”. I believe spirituality is a rather complex compilation of human emotions, senses and state of being, possibly even some of these that we are not aware that we even have or have discovered yet.
I think due to it’s complexity and our other traits that all but demand we solve riddles and define things, we have over the millennium attempted to place this spirtuality into catagories. Some devolve into religions, others into individual beliefs etc. In the end they are all connected by the human spirit.
I tend to see spirituality as little more then a state of being. That state can and often is altered by our surroundings and interactions with others.
~Matt