We are going to offer a Tilium SS wheelset with the powertap system built in. The wheelset will come with all the hardware, software and wiring and retail for $1699. I am trying to forecast production quantities and wanted to get a feeling from this forum on whether or not I high end Powertap wheelset is something people would buy.
Thanks
Paul,
Wenzel Coaching supports power training with PowerTap products for our athletes. However, many of them currently balk at the existing PT prices so I’m hesitant to believe they will want to spend more.
I may be dated on my information, but the most consistent complaint I heard from my athletes considering PT last year was that it wasn’t Campy compatible. Has this changed?
Finally, if you look at many of the top athletes, despite using Power in training, they don’t even use HRMs on race day. Instead, they choose to race by PE and tactics (I’m not sure if this is the right answer), but it goes to show that the major players leave the gadgetry at home on race day…I’m not sure that Race Day power information is necessarily useful information (what do I do with the information when I’m done with it since my “A” race is now complete?). The real value in PT for me as a coach is my ability to dynamically adjust my athlete’s training based on the data received. Certainly, this can help for subsequent seasons, but…
I’d be more than willing to further discuss if you’d like to contact me offline.
Cheers,
Jonathan C. Puskas
Paul,
At Richard Stern Training, we’ve been recommending training with power output since, 1998, we’ve also recommeded PT since their initial launch. All but two of our riders use a power meter.
Personally, i find the data collected from races very useful. Generally I have the riders i coach use a power meter in competition. The only time i might not employ this tactic, is if the rider were doing an out and out hill climb TT (and even then i may still recommend it, as it’s an excellent pacing tool).
There’s quite a lot of research looking at pacing strategies, and indeed, even comparing elite senior world (cycle) TT champions to well trained and trained riders. Research shows that elite riders are just as bad at pacing as less elite riders, and that correct pacing may well influence and improve performance. A brief review can be seen in Science and Cycling: current knowledge and future directions for research, Atkinson et al., (2003), JSS.
Currently, as well as coaching with the aid of power meters, i’m writing two research papers on them as well!
Please feel free to contact me at ric@cyclecoach.com
Jonathan, whilst the PT doesn’t come with a Campy freehub per se, a Shimano 9 or 10 cassette or some of the 3rd party adaptors work fine. This is how i’ve using my PT with a Campy 9 system!
Ric
Paul, I would love to say yes, but I think that $1700 is just too much money. Most of the guys interested in training with power will be “serious” racers and already have good race and training wheels. They are probably going to want to race on a rear disk, not a 50 mm deep rim. And wheels like the Tillium are too nice for just training wheels.
That said, I could be wrong, as I also never thought people would pay more than $1000 for a set of Zipps. But I think your average Power Tap customer is a finicky person and you would have a hard time selling enough of the systems to make it worth your while.
I know you can buy a power-tap with a zipp 415 rim for a little under a thousand. I’m not sure how many people would be willing to spend $700 more for a spinergy rim.
According to the Graber website, the 415 system is $1099 and I don’t think that includes the computer or software or a front wheel.
that is the price for just a rear wheel. You also need to buy the software and front wheel. Right now a set goes for $1995, so we would be $300 less.
The stock Tilium SS retails for about $850 or so, right? As a consumer, I think that a $850 increase for the power-tap is a bit on the steep side. Instead of shelling out $1700 for this, I’d probably just bite the bullet and go for an SRM system instead and use my existing race wheels. Most folks in this market will probably already have a set of high end dedicated race wheels, so getting another set would be a bit pointless. But, what do I know, I’m not in the biz.
What about coming out with a power-tap disc wheel? I’d bet that would have some takers.
The downside to the SRM is that you cant use the new D/A 10 cranks, campy or FSA carbon, Rotor or Power cranks. I am not saying that yours is a bad idea, just that some people dont want to swap out cranks and some dont want to swap wheels.
True. I’m just a consumer, so whadda I know ;^)
There may be a market for it, and its your company and your money on the line.
As for cranks, I don’t think it really matters if you can use DA 10, or campy, or FSA, or truvative, or ritchey, or whatever. A crank’s a crank, just switch the rings if necessary.
Rotor Cranks and Power Cranks are a different story, but since I don’t use them anyway, and the vast majority don’t either, I’m not sure that they matter from a product marketing perspective. (Not getting into a PC / RC debate here)
I bought a powertap system late last year that I planned to use on my race bike and roadbike. I think that racing with Power is huge (some coaches have said its almost like cheating). I ended up getting two powertap hubs (pro and standard hubs are identical), two wiring harnesses (about $60 for the extra one) as well as the software and computer. One powertap hub went onto a training wheel (Velocity Deep-V) and the other went into a race wheel (Zipp 404). That gives me the flexibility to both race and train with power on either bike by moving the computer and wheels around.
It is pretty expensive but here is how I saw it break down. The PT pro kit is basically a $400 bike computer, a $350 hub and a $100 piece of software (bought at discount of course). So that was what I needed to train with power. Ouch. Now in order to race with power I basically just needed race wheels with an ‘upgraded’ hub. Since I didn’t have race wheels yet anyways, the cost difference basically amounted to the cost of the PT hub minus the cost of a Zipp rear hub (which are not cheap) plus the cost of the wheel build. That amounts to a rear Zipp 404 that is about $200 more than a normal wheel. These were bought at discount of course so I wasn’t near retail price.
Anyways, once I added it all up I was able to both train and race with power on TWO bikes at substantially less than the cost of the nearest competitor power system (ergomo). Yeah, I’m not running a disk but I’ll trade off being a smidge more aero for being a lot smarter. It also leaves me the option of someday installing something like rotorcranks (for racing) or powercranks (for training) which is obviously not feasible with an SRM or ergomo.
What I’d suggest to Paul is that he offer what he suggests but also offer the wheel with powertap hub sans software/computer/wiring harness. That gives a much lower cost option and targets the market of people that are training with PTs and are struggling with a way to race with power as well without spending too much more money.
I’ll go back to TNO now. 
OT
I was thinking the same thing, with and without all the software, harnesses etc. I am working on a price for that system.
We are going to offer a Tilium SS wheelset with the powertap system built in. The wheelset will come with all the hardware, software and wiring and retail for $1699. I am trying to forecast production quantities and wanted to get a feeling from this forum on whether or not I high end Powertap wheelset is something people would buy.
Thanks
I think what PT devotees want is a rear wheel only. Many of us have our favorite wheelsets already, and are faced with running the front only, with the PT in back. I’ve got a lovely 404 front wheel, and will race it this year with the clunky PT in back.
I think racing with power is going to prove a huge hit with AG triathletes at long course racing. After only a month with my PT, I already know that I will never do anything longer than sprint without it. Forget HR monitors – power-based training and pacing is the way to go.
If PT (and companies like yours) can’t come up with an affordable race-wheel solution, then Ergomo is going to grab the market.
The first company with a PT in a disc is going to sell a lot of wheels.
What I’d suggest to Paul is that he offer what he suggests but also offer the wheel with powertap hub sans software/computer/wiring harness. That gives a much lower cost option and targets the market of people that are training with PTs and are struggling with a way to race with power as well without spending too much more money.
I missed that before, Paul.
Ditto. Wheel with hub only as an option. PT owners don’t want the whole kit.
I have heard and “don’t qote me on this” that the Ergamo measures power on one side of the bottom bracket and averages it to get your actually power output. This relies on the assumption that your legs are putting out identical power. If it is measuring your weak side then your real output could be greater and if it measures your strong side it will be giving you a reading that is too high. Has anyone else heard this or
“have I been smoking paoti for 6 days and have never even been to Mt. Visouvious”
thats my one Zoolander bit for the day.
I have heard and “don’t qote me on this” that the Ergamo measures power on one side of the bottom bracket and averages it to get your actually power output. This relies on the assumption that your legs are putting out identical power…etc.
Yes this is true, but the gearheads on the Topica wattage list report having tested Ergomo against Powertap and SRM, and have found that it is virtually a tie with Powertap in accuracy, and a little better than SRM. Ergomo’s engineering choice seems to work in actual application.
The downsides to Ergomo are that you can’t switch it between bikes, and it’s darned expensive. Upside is that you can run your favorite cranks and race wheels. It also comes with CyclingPeaks software, which is a must-have to train with power. I bought CyclingPeaks and tossed the Powertap software.
Paul,
Consumers like options, being another one will get you your chunk of the pie.
I’ve just stepped up to an Ergamo BB. It has all the bells and whistles. I can use it on my TT, track ,road, and MTB. I can use my Ritchey, Dura Ace, FSA, and XTR cranksets, and the cost is under $799.
I think Bontrager and others are selling the Powertap system wheels. Bontrager makes some nice carbon wheels too, but that doesn’t stop you from completing with that Product. You guys make pro level equipment, it should follow suit that you have a pro level power measuring device in your quiver of equipment.
Good Luck!
-SD