While this isn’t the best example of just how MUCH stuff soldiers end up paying for with their own money it just renewed the disgust that I have for that whole situation. Not the war itself but the fact that the military doesn’t even come close to supplying sufficient gear (quality or quantity) for deployments.
While getting “better” as far as provinding individual equipment, this issue is far from being fixed.
Here is a link to a video clip from the local news at Fort Drum…
Shouldn’t these items be provided or would you consider this stuff as a work related expense like buying your business suits or briefcases and then just getting a tax deduction? Body Armor was once an issue even but not so much now.
It sounded like pretty minor stuff that the troops were buying.
I actually like the fact that Uncle Sam doesn’t get everything under the sun for the troops, since it gives private organizations something to do to show support other than just wishing them well. Clearly body armor and the like doesn’t fall into this category, but personal gear items and the like are fair game for individual contributions.
That angle was not covered by this story, but a lot of that goes on. The times I have supported troops by buying them lunch or whatever seems to be really appreciated, certainly more than if Uncle Sam did it.
“Not the war itself but the fact that the military doesn’t even come close to supplying sufficient gear (quality or quantity) for deployments.”
Oh yeah. Well illustrated. It is clear from this story that every joe from the 10th Mo-town DIV does not have nearly enough pouches for all the “snacks” he carries on patrol.
Believe me when I tell you that all that is needed, I say again, NEEDED, is provided. If some leg E-4 wants, I say again, WANTS, to put a shitload of extra pouches on his kitbag, let him spend his whole mid-month check on it. It is the equivalent of a triathlete stopping by the local LBS before their big race to buy some new stuff. It isn’t going to be the difference if they win or lose, but it might make them more comfortable and confident.
I spent about $500 on extra kit before I deployed last time. But then again, we are so well paid, that I didn’t even really notice.
what joe thinks he “needs” and what he really does need is usually two entirely different things. Between the Rapid Fielding initiative that is constantly showing up to major points of deployment and what a unit collectively purchases for their troops you/we usually have more shit that we need.
This is some of the extra “stuff” or “cash and prizes” we got issued before going to OEF:
I guess part of this is just timing. While you are all right that the video example is a VERY poor one (snack pouch comments) it was the article and video that reminded me of past issues. All of those items listed are nice to have but the necessities are really dependent on where people deploy, when, weather, and if they actually get any of this issued equipment early enough.
Obviously, the system may provide for some/all of these items but if they can’t make into Joe’s hands at the right time or place than there is a problem. Some items that come to mind that were purchased with personal funds:
Nomex/FR Long Underwear
Pistol/Rifle Magazines
NVG Compatable Flashlights
Personal Survival Gear
Seatbelt Cutters
Additional Uniforms (When Only Issued Two)
Flame-Retardant Boots
Weapon Holsters
I definately do agree with you about not having sympathy about the NICE things to have.
ok granted I’m in a SF GRP so the $$$ tends to flow a wee bit more and we had alot of stuff our regualr army comrades didn’t have or get. But a lot of the stuff you listed wasn’t an issue for them either.
Everybody deploying from Bragg, SOF or conventional, were/are get 4 sets of DCU now ACUs, 2 sets of boots and another 2 sets of boots when the RFI team came through. DXing torn up or bloody uniforms is always available.
Long underwear - thats the SPEARs gear, I think conventional guys are startgin to get it now too.
NVG compatable flashights, magazines, weapons holsters. there are more of these in every unit that you can ever possible carry or need. flame-retardant boots, I’ve never seen and combat needs statements, or requirement docutments that listed FR boots, seat belt cutter - hell most of the good leatherman tools have J-hook blades in them.
The Army as a whole though has gotten 1000% better at getting joe newer gear fast. but no matter what you give guys they are alwasy going to find something else they “want to deploy with” not they actaully need it.
Anytime you watch a E-4 complain about something you have to take it with a grain of salt cause joe will always find somthing to complain about. You could give “joe” a million dollars and he would complain and ask why he got it in $20s and not $50s…
Wow, well that sucks…just typed my response and posted it but it didn’t work so I will have to paraphrase since it is time to eat.
I totally agree that Joe is in most cases a professional complainer. I guess I didn’t qualify my statements with the fact that I am a Kiowa pilot. Those items I listed were all needs rather than just desires. Spent a winter in Bosnia only to get nomex cold weather issue when it started warming up. Not really an issue for the regular Joe’s since they don’t have to worry about getting shrink-wrapped by polypro in a flashfire in the FARP. Most recently with Iraq, only two flight uniforms issued (at MOST) to aircrews along with a single pair of flame-retardant boots. Of course we got two pairs of regular boots but can’t fly in them (trust me…we tried only to be stopped). Magazines for M9’s that actually had enough spring force to squeeze out more than a couple rounds were non-existant and were “on-order” but never showed. Holsters that would work with a flight vest and aviation body armor didn’t exist so most guys went the Blackhawk route. NVG capable flashlights not exactly a MUST have but some type of covert illum in the aircraft that works with the goggles. J-hooks again not NEEDED for mission accomplishment but have had pilots drown underwater with jammed seatbelts so another nice to have item.
I see both sides and wish the whole military was as well resouced as SF, 160, etc but that isn’t the case. I do love the fat times while deployed but that usually comes too late.
Guess most of this complaining is specific to our case but I am pretty sure this takes place throughout the Army…or maybe I need more crew rest!
This is somehow different than teachers having to spend their own money to get supplies for their students to use???
Was that comparison made somewhere in this thread? If it is something required to accomplish the task then I think it should be provided no matter what the profession. Guess it comes down to who determines what is required.
Thinking about it, there may be a difference. Would a better comparison be to say that the tools required to complete school (textbooks, desks, chairs, overhead projectors) shouldn’t be purchased by the school children? Or a doctor that has to pay for his own scalpels, clamps, and ekg machines…fire fighter having to buy his own turnout gear because what he is given would melt?
Another thing, all enlisted soldiers get an annual clothing allowance somewhere between 200 and 400 depending on your rank. The other guys got it right though, Uncle Sam gives us everything we need. Everything I purchased before I deployed would either make me more comfortable or it was just some new gizmo that I “couldnt live without.”
Well, I guess I am glad that our cases were isolated and that everything you needed was provided. Hopefully next time around we are as lucky. When I was enlisted, I found that the clothing allowance wasn’t a realistic amount of money to cover an entire year’s worth of uniform upkeep but it may be different now.
Oh don’t even get me started on clothing allowances… Officers get $300 in their 1st month of active duty and that’s it… Hell my friggin Class A’s cost 300, and we are requreid to have Dress Blues too… another $300 thank you very much. OK fine that was 15 yrs ago. no problem. what really kills me is everytime Uncle Sugar comes up with some new slightly different shade of class A uniform, new PT uniform, or now the new ACUs, they increase the clothing allowances for joe. and throw on the “*= officers get a one time $300 allowance.”
It’s like the south park kids after finding out Kenny have been killed yet again… YOU BASTARDS!!!
Oh don’t even get me started on clothing allowances… Hell my friggin Class A’s cost 300, and we are requreid to have Dress Blues too… another $300 thank you very much…everytime Uncle Sugar comes up with some new slightly different shade of class A uniform, new PT uniform, or now the new ACUs…"
Good…glad somebody brought it up because that was exactly what I was thinking but was reluctant to even go there. On top of all the normal uniform upgrades and chages that we are expected to keep up I get the added hassle of flight issue obsolescense. They are pretty good about giving us the minimum stuff and letting us DX it since it is so damn expensive but that is not always the case. And you may have wondered why aviators are ALWAYS wearing flightsuits even when they aren’t flying…its because they can get new ones for free when they wear out! I know, I know…we get flight pay to cover that, right? Wrong…that is not what it is for but that is often what it goes towards!
Clothing allowance is a joke! I am going to the movies…see ya.
My point wasn’t to say clothing allowances are the cure all. It was more to point out that when JOE is having to buy “extra” crap for his uniform, the army has paid for that. You are right though, I had to buy the new class A’s when they came out and I had to buy my blues as well. I spend a small fortune every year, just like I’m sure you do on uniforms. I agree that O’s should get a clothing allowance, just like I feel that NCO pay should be closer to officer pay. But no need to get a whole new argument going on something that probably will never happen
Not to mention (for Navy officers) CNT Whites, CNT Khakis, working khakis, coveralls, Service Dress Blues, Chokers whites, Mess Dress (Whites and Blues), and once you make O-4, a sword. When I went to SpecWar for awhile, I was issued all new uniforms because we wore BDUs and flight suits instead of normal shipboard uniforms. At least those were free. The SpecWar/SpecOps guys have nothing to worry about for the basics. They have money running out of their ears.
oh yah my hat is off to you navy O-types with all the different uniforms. The one comment I still remember from when I was dropping the 600 in dress uniforms, whilst still in college, was the taylor saying “just be thankful you’re not in the navy…”
Well maybe in the Navy but SpecOps units here in the Marine Corps do not have an excess amount of money at hand, even though we ARE better off than the average grunt unit.
