First time poster although I have enjoyed reading the never ending debate regarding powercranks for sometime now. Just my non-technical view on PCs (all that physiology talk gives me a headache). I have been using PCs for a short time now although not long enough to really tell if I will see major performance gains. Several brief things:
I believe, regardless of what Powercranks may do for performance, that they are horribly over-priced (I’m sure many already know that!). Come on, you can buy Shimano Dura-ace cranks for under $400 and Campy carbon cranks for less then the model 4 Powercranks. Why are they priced so high? The price is what kept me from trying them sooner, but I finally decided now or never when making the decision to try them.
After having done some rides on the PCs, personally I do not believe they are as fun as regular cranks, particulary going downhill or cornering. Not to mention more dangerous. I find both legs at the bottom of the pedal arc when flying downhill to be a bit nerve-wracking to say the least and also uncomfortable. This alone may cause me to return my PCs for a refund before my 90 days are up. To me, simply having fun on a bike out weighs performance concerns although I know, the two can go hand in hand.
Why don’t more pure runners use the PCs? Having checked out many running forums, there is never any mention of Powercranks for improving run performance. Is it because most pure runners don’t own or ride bikes?
With that said, my overall impression of PCs is still being explored. I would like to see performance gains but I also want to continue to enjoy cycling. Whether I can enjoy cycling on the PCs permanently, well, time will tell. Right now, I would say I just may be one of the 5 in a 1000 that returns their cranks for a refund.
Powercranks are pretty much hand made as far as I can tell. Anything built in small quantities will be significantly higher priced than mass produced items.
Sometimes the things that make you faster isn’t the most fun.
Once again this is a very low volume product. Not many outside of a very small niche probably know about it.
They are made in very low volumes and I do give a pretty good warranty. hence the cost. When demand goes way up, the cost will come way down. If some of the people here have their way, the demand will never go way up
Read the directions. They take some getting used to and there are some initial safety issues. Most people are pretty comfortable on them in a couple of weeks but it takes much longer for that descending thing to feel comfortable. I did have one pro tell me he like that descending as he felt he had a lower center of gravity. Most don’t like it.
Most pure runners just don’t know about them. Before I had an exercise bike i wanted to send a pair to some of the running magazines for review but no one wanted to ride a bike. I am hoping to have some studies done son to look at running, which should open some eyes.
If ya stick with them, you will learn to crave them. First time I took them off for a race, I couldnt wait to get them back on as they become a part of your normal biking. In fact, regular cranks make feel lazy now. Givem the full 90!
As to the safety issue out on the road, I was finishing a 50 miler this past Wednesday when I came to a spot where I usually sit up and ride no handed on my regular bike and take a bite or have a drink and basically take stock of a good ride. So there I was, enjoying a great afternoon ride, having a drink and riding no handed for aboout 150 yards when all of a sudden I realized I was on my PC bike… I was doing the “look Ma no Brains, drill” from the PC guide. The funny thing was I didn’t even think twice about it and when I realized what I was doing I almost swerved and went down just thinking about it. I have been on PC’s a year now so I guess you can say I have adjusted… So it definitely gets better.
About me, I’ve been on PC"s for a year and a half. I have one bike for training with PC’s, another for bicycle racing and fast group rides, and one more for triathlon/time trials. I do the majority of my biclycle training on PC’s. I sometimes ride PC’s in a group enviorment, but only with friends and only when I know the pace and distance will be reasonable. I am still about 2mph slower on PC’s than regular cranks. Contrary to what Frank says I think it is extremely important to get out on regular cranks. I usually do one fast group ride and one short time trial per week on regular cranks. I noticed a weakness in my glutes/upper hamstrings after riding PC’s exclusively last summer and again over the winter. Also, I always warmup for my runs by riding on the trainer with my PC’s for 20 or 30 minutes.
Here are my thoughts on your thoughts:
The PC debates also give me a headache. I ignore them for the most part.
You’re right they are expensive, but then so are racing wheels/disks, one piece aero bars, ect., ect.
Again you;'re right. They are not as fun to ride as regular cranks and I would never consider riding them in a serious group enviroment. However, the real fun for me is racing fast and I’m having quite a bit of fun with both my bike and run.
I’ve never met another cyclist/triathlete in real life who even knows what PC’s are. There are some people who think they might know what I mean or who know someone who knows someone who “uses something like that”, but I’ve never met anyone who confidently says they know about PC’s. So the fact they haven’t taken hold in the running world really doesn’t surprise me.
Finally, I know PC’s have helped both my bike and my run. I don’t know why, I don’t know how, but it very obvious something is happening. I hope you stick with your cranks and I hope you see the same results.
i see skyman’s views as probably one of the most valid reasons forl not liking PC’s, actually. they do have some quirky handling issues and similar that would not be all that fun in certain locations or limitations of cycling, i think. crappy concrete, lots of stop and go traffic, an ultra stiff bike with tiny tires, etc. i wouldn’t ride PC’s like that, either. obviously lots of guys do, but there is a better way. my PC bike weighs a ton, and is slow as dirt - i am not PCing to set records on solo trianing rides - it works great for what i want it to do.
after experiencing those issues i sorta rebuilt a spare bike i had into a PC bike. to me the ideal PC bike is longer and lower, made of high end steel, and will fit fat-ass tires of some sort or another. a really comfy seat helps. an older road bike, or the oft sought after “sport touring” type bike from the eighties is perfect. maybe a cheap surly cross bike, or similar. something you can just sit heavy on and work on the PC thing with and be stable and comfy.
with that said they are still not for everyone. they are more like something on the line of fixed gear, or mtn biking in tough terrain on a singlespeed. you are making things hard on yourself for an end goal. persoanlly i like that sort of thing but as my wife sez, i am a freak for doing so. the casual cyclist out for fitness and to feel the wind on his face is not going to like PC’s very much, i do not think - just as he would not enjoy going mtn biking and being in a woefully wrong gear all the time. takes a certain mindset and defintion of fun, i guess.
the price is in line with any machined low volume piece of involved hardware made by usa machinists. if truvativ made them they would be half what they aey are i am sure. the campy carbon crank costs more and does exactly what a 50 dollar sugino off’n ebay does so you pays yer mony and you takes yer choice. zipp wheels are over-priced, for god;s sake, and people line up to buy those.
You state that you felt your upper hamstrings/gluts were weak with PC’s - why? Seems like they work those muscles more as you have to pull back and up with the cranks - though maybe you use your quads less at first as you adapt and the other muscles can’t keep up. How much of a typical pedal stroke is gluts? Also anything that weakened your hams/gluts would seem to slow your running a lot…
What is everyone’s opinions on exclusive use? Mike says No - yet Frank is very adamant. Seems like Yaquicarbo (one of the biggest proponents - rides his yaqui without - how often? I may get a tri-bike and it would be nice not to have to switch cranks all the time…
Initial poster: Descending - I’m the same - do not like it as much. Speedbumps are the absolute worst! Its all getting easier with time though - as long as I soft pedal the descents - no problem - just takes practice…I’m now to the point where I feel almost as comfortable on PC’s and similar levels of “fun”. I say ride a lot for 90 days - check your times and go from there - definitely takes time. I’m still not sold on them (making me faster that is) though I’m past my 90 days but I took some time off from training…
Perhaps I was a bit misleading in my wording. I don’t think PC’s made my glutes/hamstrings weaker. I think for whatever reason I work that area harder when I ride regular cranks. I did not feel any weakness/imbalance in that area while running last summer or over the winter nor did I feel any while riding PC’s. However, when I would hop on regular cranks that area would feel fatigue before the rest of my legs. After a few weekly rides on regular cranks that sensation has gone and my average speeds on regular cranks went up substancially, but the speed on PC’s still stayed about the same.
So in summary, my impression of PC’s after exclusive use was they helped with my running for sure and they maybe helped my cycling some. After a few weeks of weekly workouts on regular cranks my impression was “holy shit I can really ride a bike!”.
How much improvement do you see in your running?
I thought PC’s were worth the time, $, and effort when the only benefits I saw were in my running.
You’re right, I rode my Yaqui with regular cranks. I can tell you exactly how much…582 miles last year vs. 2078 on my PC-equipped bike. Not big mileage on either bike compared to most of you animals! I did most of the regular-crank riding toward the end of last year as I raced more then. However, I don’t do much long-slow riding…it’s pretty much warm up, go hard, go home. If you have the time, the long slow stuff may be much better than what I do. But, I rely on strength and power, not great endurance, and I don’t race longer than a half ironman (except I hope to do Duke Blue Devil Ironman this year…but, I have to get well really quickly!)
Now, I no longer have regular cranks on my Yaqui. BUT, I don’t have PC’s on them, either. I’m trying something out to see how it goes. But, I’ve been out with pneumonia/bronchitis for over a week, so now I’m just in limbo.
I think it was important for me to get on regular cranks periodically. There is a bail-out feature built in to regular cranks in case it is needed, that is not available on PC’s In a race, you just never know when you’ll need to bail out and just survive a section after going too hard for a bit. And, I tend to work my vastus medialis more on non-PC cranks…partly because of a change in positioning, partly because I’m having to push down more and waste some energy doing so when not on PC’s and getting tired.
I still think it all points to the individual…you just have to find what works for you.
Does anyone find it hard to run right after doing a PC workout on the bike? Personally, I thought it would be difficult but found my legs felt no different then any other run following a bike ride on normal cranks. Is this good or bad? I have not felt the need to reduce my running mileage either because of unusual leg fatigue. My first ever PC workout on the indoor trainer I went 30 minutes straight at over 20 mph and then went out and ran 5 miles with hills. I am just curious if what I have experienced is normal?
30 minutes at 20 mph for a first ride (it was a first ride wasn’t it?), especially if on a trainer (no coasting), is definitely above average. Not sure about the run. I think most find little problem with the run unless they have really toasted their legs but I will let others voice their experiences so I can learn also.
At first I recall the run was hard after a trainer ride. Now, not so much…I do many trainer/run/trainer/run bricks, and PCing seems to wake my legs up for a faster run turnover. You’re doing great!
I usually like to ride 30 minutes on the trainer before most runs as I run better after warming up on the bike. I was just wondering why I have not felt more fatigue in my legs (or more precisely the hip flexors) on the run following the PC rides vs. the regular crank rides? Having run for over 20 years I have regularly run short, steep hills. By short I mean it takes maybe 30 to 60 sec. to get up and by steep I mean anywhere from 15 to 30 percent. By running such steep hills, you have no choice but to concentrate on lifting your legs more to make it up the hill. I am wondering if I have not already developed my hip flexors over the years by having run these steep hills were I focus on lifting my legs. I don’t know how much sense this makes but it is one explanation I have as to why the PCs are not tiring my hip flexors to the extent I thought they would. Anyone have any thoughts on this it would be appreciated.
Of course your uphill running has helped develop your hip flexors! BTW, uphill running is the only time I think it would be a good idea to put weights on your ankles when running…for hip flexor training.
You are a good example of how one way of training your hip flexors carries over to other activities…your running uphill allows you to do better on PC’s than most beginners. Conversely, I imagine training on PC’s allows most beginner hill runners to do better than those that have never trained on PC’s!
Hip flexors ARE trainable! To what extent? I haven’t a clue. To the extent that none of the downward forces produced by the extensors during a pedal stroke is wasted to lift the rising pedal? Absolutely. More than that? Yes, at least for short periods of time. How much more? I don’t have a clue.
Your dedicated hill running has probably done the same thing for your HF’s as XC skiers see. They also seem to have relatively easy transitions compared to everyone else.
Another question then, why not just continue doing steep hill running to further develop the hip flexors instead of using the PCs? Or how about some of the other running drills often prescribed by running coaches? Wouldn’t these work just as well as PCs?
Even though I have been a cyclist for a long time, a bought the PCs to try to improve my per mile running pace versues trying to further develop my cycling. Sure, any cycling gains would be fine but I am more concerned about running. Maybe I got carried away with the decrease your marathon times by 20 minutes in 3 months on Powercranks which is why I bought them. I know everyone is different and results will vary, but still, Frank does a good job of convincing everyone they will improve dramatically. I guess you call this smart marketing.
I believe that PCs do work but to what extent for each individual, who knows? I guess my final point is that PCs are not the only way to improve one’s efficiency and performance. They are just another option athletes have.
When you are running hills, you are probably only lifting your foot 6 inches or so off the ground. Then, the hill is only so long, so when you get to the top you have to stop and turn around. The PC’s get you to lift the foot 14 inches and you “never” get to the top of the hill. Plus, they do a whole bunch of other things for you to help you improve your running form.
Don’t worry, you will see the running improvement. Maybe not quite what those who haven’t been running hills will see, but you will see them.
Athletes have plenty of options. The PC’s just let you go beyond what you can do with all the other options combined, because you don’t have to stop doing any of those other options when you add PC’s.
Yaquicarbo asks a good question as to what extent are the hip flexors trainable? I mean, how much or for how long can you really expect to improve regardless if you are using PCs or something else? Frank, you say that athletes can continue to improve year after year on Powercranks. But how and why? Can a person who has spent their entire athletic life developing their hip flexors still see further improvement with the PCs even though their hip flexors may already be massively developed? I not trying to start another argument here (I’m sure your tired of that!), just more curious then anything. PCs mainly develop the hip flexors, correct? Strong hip flexors are just a small part of the overall performance equation in sports like cycling and running aren’t they?
Because skeletal muscle is skeletal muscle. It makes no difference if it is quads, hamstrings, finger muscles, or hip flexors. When someone starts from couch potato status and starts running, the usual muscles will continue to develop, if properly stimulated, for several years. The biggest changes are in the beginning, but substantial changes continue for years. It is called training effect. I see no reason the hip flexors should be any different. Just because some of the people here say they were not meant to be used, clearly PC’ers use them and I expect the use and abilities of them to increase over the years with continued training.
Whether the HF’s are a small part of the equation (which they have always been in the past) doesn’t mean they, necessarily, have to remain so, but even if they remain a small part, they are a part of the equation so continued improvement will continue to help. According to my runnign gurus, the recovery portion of the running stride is the MOST IMPORTANT portion to develop for increased running speed. The recovery portion is mostly hip flexors and hamstrings. That is why I think you should not diminish the possible benefits and keep with them for years.
