The Dead, the Dollars, the Drones: 9/11 Era by the Numbers…
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/dangerroom_911toll_0909/all/1
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two things I was not aware of:
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that defense spending had increased so much. that really makes me throw up in my mouth a little with all of the rhetoric about liberals wasting money.
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that afghanistan had ramped up so much and iraq down so much
two things I was not aware of:
-
that defense spending had increased so much. that really makes me throw up in my mouth a little with all of the rhetoric about liberals wasting money.
-
that afghanistan had ramped up so much and iraq down so much
That page is an eye opener. I think we need to start keeping tabs on what the yahoos in Washington are up to. More than likely, a large percentage of our current economic woes can be traced back to our overreaction to the events of 9/11. As a nation we have lost a great deal of freedom because of our collective belief that we must be ‘safe’ and root out all terrorism regardless of the monetary cost.
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You must be unpatriotic to suggest that we curb our military spending.
You must be unpatriotic to suggest that we curb our military spending.
It costs $20 million a month to air-condition bases in Afghanistan .
And it’s worth every penny if you’re an American stuck in that hell hole. But on the other hand, I went to college in Arizona. All but one semester I had no airconditioning because my roomates never wanted the extra expense. I also had no air condiioning in my car. I also attended summer school every year. So it’s not like it can’t be done.
To the total costs involved … 20 million is like us dropping a quarter in the street every week .
I hate the growth / More … mentality , Piss away our budget more trucks / fuel / Ammo / tents … or they will cut it back next year.
But those Drones are the " shiznit " , my Buddy use to build them . The mid-size versions are relativly cheap and can loiter in an area for days .
Watching for people to kill , deep inside anyones borders .
two things I was not aware of:
-
that defense spending had increased so much. that really makes me throw up in my mouth a little with all of the rhetoric about liberals wasting money.
-
that afghanistan had ramped up so much and iraq down so much
You’re a guy who likes to use the internet to find out facts. I think you should do so on this topic. Look also at what is included in “military spending”. I think you won’t feel so nauseas when you’re done.
Yes, let’s also look at what’s not included in the military spending - contractors, more contractors, oh, and contractors.
it took me months to figure out global warming
I’d rather not spend months figuring out what you are getting at.
so what are you getting at?
two things I was not aware of:
-
that defense spending had increased so much. that really makes me throw up in my mouth a little with all of the rhetoric about liberals wasting money.
-
that afghanistan had ramped up so much and iraq down so much
You’re a guy who likes to use the internet to find out facts. I think you should do so on this topic. Look also at what is included in “military spending”. I think you won’t feel so nauseas when you’re done.
Relatively very low as %GDP, major overseas operations ongoing, Homeland Security costs are part of the number, etc. I don't disagree with shrinking military budgets, but we need to shrink the mission accordingly, and the direction has been the opposite since 9/11, and I AM against (again) asking the military to do more with less.
here’s a recent check on someone else’s claims:
two things I was not aware of:
-
that defense spending had increased so much. that really makes me throw up in my mouth a little with all of the rhetoric about liberals wasting money.
-
that afghanistan had ramped up so much and iraq down so much
That page is an eye opener. I think we need to start keeping tabs on what the yahoos in Washington are up to. More than likely, a large percentage of our current economic woes can be traced back to our overreaction to the events of 9/11. As a nation we have lost a great deal of freedom because of our collective belief that we must be ‘safe’ and root out all terrorism regardless of the monetary cost.
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Could you specify exactly what freedoms you have lost, and how those constitute a “great deal” of our freedom? The implication is that we have given up the majority of our civil rights.
Edited to add: And, what in your opinion, was an “overreaction” (not including the invasion of Iraq, which I will stipulate as an “overreaction”)?
Spot
“a great deal” does not necessarily imply “most”
I would say it is not so much the total loss of any particular freedoms but an important erosion of many. The patriot act for instance:
"Records searches. It expands the government’s ability to look at records on an individual’s activity being held by third parties. (Section 215)
Secret searches. It expands the government’s ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
“Trap and trace” searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects “addressing” information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214). "
we can add the recent X-ray and pat downs at airports. Note that these are not things done with warrants or due cause. They are just done because you are in an airport (or soon train station, port, bus station)
so while many of us feel that the constitution should apply when “in america” it has been whittled down to where it applies pretty much only in your own house. It applies less and less on roads, in any station of transportation or government, etc.
So %of GDP. In a sense it is low, historically, as seen here:
but it still went up under the BushObama Borg Collective.
It is also a lot compared to all other nations on Earth.
We have an overall downward trend in the long run, but at the same time as conservative elements bicker about nickles and dimes here and there (and I think they should, by the way) military spending increased a LOT under bush, and looks like it kept going up under Obama. that makes me want to throw up a little. It reminds me of some stupid shit my facebook friends said, where they posted a long poetic ode to Reagan as a leader who could control spending (budget monotonically increased under his watch, mostly due to military and medical care spending…lulz)
but that said, military spending should be whatever it needs to be to keep us reasonable safe. I think many of us feel Iraq wasn’t part of any kind of safety equations and resent the money, resources, and lives spent on that cause.
many of us resent some of the homeland security spending too.
Relatively very low as %GDP, major overseas operations ongoing, Homeland Security costs are part of the number, etc. I don't disagree with shrinking military budgets, but we need to shrink the mission accordingly, and the direction has been the opposite since 9/11, and I AM against (again) asking the military to do more with less.
here’s a recent check on someone else’s claims:
My main point is that people love to throw that charge out, that Bush did this or that to Constitution, and that we have given up all sorts of freedom in this country, without being very specific. The fact is, while some freedoms (or perhaps more accurately, some aspects of our privacy) has been eroded, the general freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution haven’t been touched. Furthermore, we have been subjected to screening at airports since well before 9-11; why is it becoming such an issue now? Just because they’re actually trying to do a better job of finding stuff?
Spot
Again, though, the key question is: If you want major reductions in military spending, than identify those missions that the military will no longer be required to do. Simply saying “cut the budget” without cutting the scope of the mission is not very helpful.
Spot
not including the invasion of Iraq
Dude. I want your opinion on my I’m fat - but you can’t mention my daily 10lb. Thin-Mint-and-bacon-casserole, which I stipulate is poor nutrition
When it costs ~4500 U.S. military lives, ~100,000 Iraqi civilian lives, and upwards of $2T, it remains fair game as “overreaction.” You are denied your request to stipulate this one off the table. You have no challenges remaining.
“while some freedoms have been eroded the general freedoms haven’t been touched”
wut?
and airport screening is an issue now because it has gone from scanning of baggage and metal detecting, to pat downs and xrays, and it isn’t at all clear that this makes us any safer. Alert citizens and locked cockpit doors pretty much solved the problem already.
My main point is that people love to throw that charge out, that Bush did this or that to Constitution, and that we have given up all sorts of freedom in this country, without being very specific. The fact is, while some freedoms (or perhaps more accurately, some aspects of our privacy) has been eroded, the general freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution haven’t been touched. Furthermore, we have been subjected to screening at airports since well before 9-11; why is it becoming such an issue now? Just because they’re actually trying to do a better job of finding stuff?
Spot
anyone got a high level breakdown? I got my highlighter ready!
Again, though, the key question is: If you want major reductions in military spending, than identify those missions that the military will no longer be required to do. Simply saying “cut the budget” without cutting the scope of the mission is not very helpful.
Spot
and airport screening is an issue now because it has gone from scanning of baggage and metal detecting, to pat downs and xrays,
I’d argue that’s a marginal loss of freedom, not a major loss of personal freedom. Some disagree with me, but most don’t.
Alert citizens and locked cockpit doors pretty much solved the problem already.
Solved? I don’t think so. If not for terrorist incompetence we’d have had at least three more acts of terror in planes (shoe,panties,toner). The above might solve the 9/11-style hijacking, but that’s about it.
I agree with you in principle, but it’s a mistake to overstate your case.