I am trying to determine whether a Soloist or P3C is best for me. I am focused primarily on triathlons but my career prevents me from doing more than 4-5 races per year (and generally I like to participate in Olympic distance & Sprint only). Further, I do approximately 75% of my training on a spin-bike and only actually get to ride 1-2 times per week.
I have been leaning torward a P3C but am now considering the practicality of the Soloist which would allow me to also participate in occasional group rides (I don’t have a road bike). The thought is that I could use a forward seatpost with the soloist to achieve my tri position for races.
Question: In reality, if I go with the P3C (same setup & wheelset as the soloist) what is the realistic time savings I will achieve over a flat 40km bike leg at 22-24mph? Are we talking 3-4 minutes or significantly less?
I have a team soloist DA and I love it! I also have a p2c that is very aero. I am not sure on the time savings etc between the bikes, but I can tell you that the soloist is an incredible bike. It is super light and super aero. I even got the down graded wheels, the Easton Vistas, and they are may favorite training wheel I’ve ever had, including ksyriums. I don’t know what kind of hubs they have, but the rolling resistance on them is incredible. I do a spin test occassionally to test rolling resistance. These things spin forever. They spin much longer than my Zipp 808’s and they match the bike beautifully (black and white). I used the bike as a road bike early in the season and now that I am picking up the volume for IMF, I have switched it into a tri bike to match the same specs as my p2c. I also threw a set of cheap aero bars on there and I am ready to ride when I don’t want to risk dropping the carbon on the road. I can say enough about the bargain that the soloist is. Plus, the anodized paint on it won’t chip or scratch. Always looks good. If I were you, I would save the money, get a nice set of aero bars and race wheels and go with the soloist.
Thanks for the feeback. I am considering the carbon Soloist…so ultimately the financial commitment between the two bikes is basically a wash. However, I assume the ride characteristics are similiar to the soloist team. Regarding time savings…is 15 seconds really all I could stand to save with the P3C? That seems very minimal?
It really isn’t a fair comparison, since both bikes put you in different positions. You certainly wouldn’t be riding the P3C with drop handle bars, and you couldn’t get as low as you potentially could on the Soloist compared to the P3C. While the P3C is a more aerodynamic frame, the position the bikes would allow you to adopt is far more important for your aerodynamics.
If you’re thinking of using the soloist with clipons aerobars, you should be comparing it with the P2C, not the P3C. The P2C has a higher headtube, and so you’d probably ride with far less spacers.
Personal opinion: get 2 bikes! A soloist team and a P2SL.
are you talking about a road setup with the soloist? you’d lose a fair amount of time, given hand position and all that.
-road setup with clip-on aerobars? that’s what i’ve been doing, but you can’t shift from there. i lose some time that way, but a more coordinated person wouldn’t.
-swap out shifters when you put on the aerobars? it’ll be a fair amount of work, and you’ll have to buy 2 pairs of shifters, but if you’re good at working on the bike, i doubt you’d lose much time at all on the soloist, if you can get as low on it as you’d ride the p3c (which is meant to be ridden lower, but plenty of people who own one can’t handle that low a position).
-take off the drop bars and always ride it with bullhorns, aerobars, and bar-end shifters? i doubt you’d lose much time at all. (I guess some, if your position is identical, but the frame differences won’t make as much difference as and body position differences). that said, if it’s to be a full-time tri bike, get a full-time tri-bike.
Totally agree, but I would add that relatively few rider who ride as much as the OP describes, can get in as low a position as a P3 is meant for. I’d go the 2 bike route you suggest or if it has to be 1 top shelf ride pick the Soloist. I just can’t see a P3 being a riders only bike any more than I can see a lamborgini being a familys only car.
As to the speed difference, if you can get into an ideal P3 position it will be a big difference (say 10 spot on the bike ride in a big age group tri). If you can only get into a position on the P3 that could be duplicated on the soloist then the difference will be slight. Possibly the edge may go to the soloist on a technical course due to the better handling.
I have two friends who set their best bike times at a local sprint tri (30 kms bike) on their Soloists instead of their P3 and P2K. That’s not supposed to happen, but it did. Go figure.
I have both a P3C and a Soloist Carbon.
They are both fantastic but different bikes, one is a time trial bike the other
as it come from the factory is a PURE road bike.
Why do I say a pure road bike, 2 main reasons:
Unlike the soloist team the soloist carbon does not come
with a dual position seat post, I think (check this yourself) that the seat post on the
soloist cabon has the same dimensions as the one that comes with the P2SL so you can get
yourself a seat post that will allow you to get forward but it doesn’t come stock.
The handle bars on the soloist carbon are corbon and it is NOT recommended that you
put on clip on aero bars on those handle bars, of course no one will stop you if you do
but they could break (likely at the worst possible time) so you have 3 choices.
a: the Oval Concepts aero bar that attaches with the stem cap (See Slowman’s article on the first page of the forum).
b: Profile Design makes a special hex shaped stem the allows you to add one of their aero bars to the stem.
c: Buy a new set of handle bars that do allow clip on aero bars (either aluminium or reinforced carbon).
So the soloist carbon is not (as it comes from the factory) useable for both road and Tri the soloist team
is; just add clip on aerobars flip the seat and your good to go.
That’s the bad news, the good news the Soloist Carbon is a dream to ride, stiff but absorbs road vibrations,
super light, just a fantastic bike! The P3C is also a fantastic bike, so I’m not sure if my bike review is of
any use to you. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that the Soloist Carbon is not as is a dual use bike.
My idea was to possibly use the Sololist in a tri-position 50% and a road position the other 50%. To get into a try position I was planning to use the forward post with an integrated aerobar setup (just attach the STI shifters to the bullhorns). Although I probably couldn’t get quite as low as with the P3C…I’m not very flexible anyway.
. I don’t know what kind of hubs they have, but the rolling resistance on them is incredible. I do a spin test occassionally to test rolling resistance. These things spin forever. They spin much longer than my Zipp 808’s
Thats funny. My dad says the same thing with his wheels. He thinks his vistas are faster than his zipps and tells me about these hill climbs he does and how it was faster on the eastons blah blah. Anyone want a pair of 606’s…?
My idea was to possibly use the Sololist in a tri-position 50% and a road position the other 50%.
you can make a swappable handlebar configuration… I did for testing this year and it is really pretty easy to make. with the cable splitters it takes about 10 minutes to swap front ends (assuming the bars/stem/shifters brakes are one block).
and it isn’t very pretty, but it does work well. Back when I built it, I thought I would have two different setups I would switch fairly ofter, I intended to have custom stems made that had the cable stops welded to them. the cost from a local frame builder in TI wasn’t much more than any top end stem. in the end, my aeo or die setup was much more livable than I thought it would be and kept that setup.
but I hope this helps and give you some ideas… i think it would work ok…
It really isn’t a fair comparison, since both bikes put you in different positions. You certainly wouldn’t be riding the P3C with drop handle bars, and you couldn’t get as low as you potentially could on the Soloist compared to the P3C. While the P3C is a more aerodynamic frame, the position the bikes would allow you to adopt is far more important for your aerodynamics.
Aaah…but you forget about using an adjustable stem such as a Look ergostem. With one of those on my aluminum Soloist, I can achieve the same bar position I could if the frame was a P3C. The only downside is that the stem is relatively heavy. Headtube height doesn’t necessarily limit how low you can put your bars.
According to the numbers posted by Dr. Coggan, it’s possible that the P3C has an advantage of ~1.5 to 2 seconds per kilometer over a P2K. IMO, a Soloist isn’t going to be much different aerodynamically than a P2K (with equivalent equipment setups). So, to answer the OPs question, that’s looking like 60 to 80 seconds of savings over 40K.
If you’re thinking of using the soloist with clipons aerobars, you should be comparing it with the P2C, not the P3C. The P2C has a higher headtube, and so you’d probably ride with far less spacers.
Personal opinion: get 2 bikes! A soloist team and a P2SL.
Personal opinion: That would be a waste of money. IMO a P2SL won’t be much better (if any) than a Soloist team drag-wise. I already have an aluminum Soloist and came this close to buying a P2SL earlier in the year. I’m glad I didn’t. I’m saving my pennies for at least a P2C, and hopefully a P3C.
My idea was to possibly use the Sololist in a tri-position 50% and a road position the other 50%. To get into a try position I was planning to use the forward post with an integrated aerobar setup (just attach the STI shifters to the bullhorns). Although I probably couldn’t get quite as low as with the P3C…I’m not very flexible anyway.
Greg posted his slick “cable splitter” solution to this problem…but almost as easy is to just have a complete “front end” setup for each configuration (i.e. stem, bars, shifters, and brakes including the cables). Instead of using crimped cable ends, just apply a drop of superglue to the ends to keep them from fraying. That way, when it’s time to do the swap, just loosen the 4 cable attachment bolts (2 derailluer, 2 brake) and the stem bolts and lift the whole stem plus bars config off the front end, pulling the cables out through the housings. Then, put the alternate bar config on and route the cables. IMO, that’s easier, and better, than swapping STIs to the aerobar…although, if you could get some spare bar clamps, that would make that swap a LOT more palatable since you wouldn’t need to retape the bars every time. Just unscrew the hold-down bolt…hmmm, I kind of like that idea. But, I digress…
The above is what I used to do with my Soloist before I got a dedicated road frame and converted the Soloist to full-time TT duty. It got to the point where I could easily do the road-to-TT swap, or vice versa, in ~1/2 hour.
Another thing that helps is to buy another seatpost head from Cervelo and have your TT/Tri seat already set up in the forward position. A single 5mm bolt needs to be loosened to make the seat swap…you may need to do a minor seatpost height adjustment as well, but that’s easy.
Just my 2 pesos for if you decide to go the Soloist route…
I have had the same struggle. Carbon Soloist with Forward seatpost or P3C or P2C. Currently have Full DA Team Soloist but have someone who will buy my frame and fork and I can swap groupo to the carbon bike. So which one…It will be my trinng and race bike. I currently ride the soloist in the forward position all the time with clip on’s. I have thought about investing in a one piece bar set up with bar end shifters foor the soloist.
Need ideas on this?? Does anyone have a pic where they have done this for tri season and then put the road bars back on for training.
I bought an Aluminum Team Solist last year and just in the last few months I got a professional fit (owner of local bike shot and triathlete) for both road and tri position. I also bought an extra seat and seatpost for switching around more easily.
Despite the fact I expected to have to take out spacers, etc., to really lower my handlebars for aero position, my fit resulted with no need to change to my handlebars for tri position. As I am sure many posters will be, at first I was skeptical because this seemed too good to be true. But my aero position was pretty good without lowering my handlebars and lowering the handlebars (i) decreased my measured angles in such a way the fitter said I would probably lose power and (ii) put intolerable pressure on the you-know-where area of my groin, despite the fact he said I had the ideal seat for my forward-setup.
My fitter said many people over-focus on getting really low up front for aero position without taking into account the counterveiling factors of decreased comfort and power.
Anyway, I love my Team Soloist and I thought you might benefit from a different perspective other than lower is always better (up front). It is awesome having one bike for going up mountains and group rides and being able to put on another seatpost and do tri position.
…My fitter said many people over-focus on getting really low up front for aero position without taking into account the counterveiling factors of decreased comfort and power.
Anyway, I love my Team Soloist and I thought you might benefit from a different perspective other than lower is always better (up front). It is awesome having one bike for going up mountains and group rides and being able to put on another seatpost and do tri position.
Hmmm…may I ask how you and your “fitter” measured that you are at your “best” combination of position and power output? In other words, how was this measured? Just curious.
He measured the degree of various angles, like between my thigh bone and upper body. He said optimum power was generally between a certain range of degrees and I was already towards one end of the range with my handlebars where they were for road fit (meaning, my angle would have decreased below the range if I had lowered my handlebars).
I’m no expert, so I’m sure I"m not describing it just right. My point is only that it seems like not everyone would gain the same benefit from a “lower” tri-specific bike versus a soloist.
