after watching the L-B-L yesterday I was thinking that it seems like the CSC riders always get into the final breaks of a race on their soloist, doing most of the work like voigt did for vino, but then at the end for the sprint finish they never seem to win…
i might be way off here - but it seems like the guys riding the soloist don’t have the finishing kick with that bike? too heavy to push harder at the end? no responsive like the carbon lightweights the other teams are using? or simply a matter of tactics and riders strength?
i own one, so i’m not bashing the product…just curious to monday quaterback the situation.
The Soloist IS a great bike, but with all due respect, at this level, I am not sure if it played that big a role in whether Voight won/lost the race. I think that tactics and fitness were very likley the bigger players in deciding the outcome.
after watching the L-B-L yesterday I was thinking that it seems like the CSC riders always get into the final breaks of a race on their soloist, doing most of the work like voigt did for vino, but then at the end for the sprint finish they never seem to win…
i might be way off here - but it seems like the guys riding the soloist don’t have the finishing kick with that bike? too heavy to push harder at the end? no responsive like the carbon lightweights the other teams are using? or simply a matter of tactics and riders strength?
i own one, so i’m not bashing the product…just curious to monday quaterback the situation.
In a sprint. Vino vs Voigt. Vino wins 99.9% of the time. Nothing to quarterback. :-). Like P-R. Boonen vs Hincapie. Boonen wins 99.9% of the time. It’s not mechanical it’s genetics.
"i’ve been a long time supporter of the brand…just looking for some discussion…but, i’ve got my fireproof jacket on just in case. "
I hear you, I was just having a little fun making a tongue-in-cheak comment about the throngs of Cervelo supporters on this board. Being a former owner of one… I can definitely see why! Great bike… But even a great bike has the right selling price!
Possibly the most unsupported gear bashing comment I’ve ever heard. I hope this was tongue in cheek ! I’m sure the fact that Voigts legs were fried (having done a lot of the driving) have nothing to do with it…
“In a sprint. Vino vs Voigt. Vino wins 99.9% of the time. Nothing to quarterback. :-). Like P-R. Boonen vs Hincapie. Boonen wins 99.9% of the time. It’s not mechanical it’s genetics. :-)”
In the 2 or 3 up sprint finish situation, you see this happend regularly. The cat and mouse is almost a formality, because if one rider has the more explosive sprint either naturally, or due to “fresher” legs, it’s that rider who is going to win. You see some riders not even bother to contest the sprint at this point because they know it’s next to hopeless to do so.
Can someone with tactical expertise tell me why Voight would be willing to drive the 2 man break so hard? Maybe it was the way the coverage was cut, but it appeared that Vino was doing the absolute minimum of work.
Is it because 2nd place in LBL is better than taking a chance in the main field?
They only had 1 minute, all the favorites were in the chase group (Boogerd, Bettini, Cunego, Rebellin, etc), which was decent-sized, and he probably didn’t believe the group would let guys like him and Vino get away, b/c both those guys can win.
Vino won for two reasons, mainly b/c he’s a better sprinter and Voigt is a diesel, but secondly b/c Voigt was off the front for a long time, did a ton of work, and buried himself on Wed in Fleche Wallone. It was academic.
That’s the intriuguing thing about bike racing, is that there is always things going on. It’s never as clear as it first seems. There can always be ongoing debate about how it could have turned out if . . .
Perhaps the Voight-off-the-front strategy was the set up for another CSC game-plan that failed, was nuetralized or never got going. Who knows?
You also have to keep in the back of the mind that this is big business over in Europe and the riders are mobile billboards for their key sponsors. 10 minutes or 2 hours off-the-front means 10 minutes or 2 hours of air-time on TV for that sponsor. Something to consider.
i might be way off here - but it seems like the guys riding the soloist don’t have the finishing kick with that bike? too heavy to push harder at the end? no responsive like the carbon lightweights the other teams are using? or simply a matter of tactics and riders strength?
there’s two issues in your statement: 1) are the guys who happen to be riding Soloists inferior riders? 2) are Soloists too flexy to sprint?
Riis doesn’t have a Discovery-sized budget. probably the guys who are riding Soloists just don’t have that kick (although Piil in the 03 TDV vs Sacchi on Saeco won, and I believe it was on a Soloist). as others have said, Voight is a diesel and Vino is a gasoline engine. that’s part of the reason Vino isn’t a world-class time trialist. anyway, Voight vs Vino will usually resolve itself in favor of Vino. unless Vino is really, really tired, or really really drunk.
and two, if the Soloist was made of plastic (not carbon, plastic) this might be an issue, but at that level, no bike is going to lose you the sprint.
Cut Vino some slack - he is a pretty solid Time Trialist - he did finish 3rd at the Worlds last year and 3rd in his last major stage race TT the counted (TdF '03 - Stage 12 TT). He is crazy strong and while it did seem like Voit drove the break more there is no way they would have stayed away if it had been Bettini or Basso instead of Vino. he was crazy strong on Sunday. he’s definately back from last year’s crash and hungry for some wins!
this is a bit OT - but coming back to the original post - had they swapped bikes I think Vino still would have had the gas to win. hands down.
Check out Gerard’s responses to a similar question (Why’d Julich choose a Soloist instead of a R2.5 for Paris-Nice) in this thread (he has 2 responses - read the whole thread)
Here’s a summary (I combined the questions with the responses to make it easier to read):
MWBYRD: "1. why is the Soloist better for the early season races? "
GERARD: “1. Personally I think a Soloist is better for most races. Aerodynamics usually beats the few hundred grams.”
MWBRYD: “2. Is the R2.5 that much better that you were surprised the riders didn’t complain about going back to the Soloist? Or is it back to the basics - The Pros ride whatever is put out with their name on it.”
