I decided to pull the trigger on a set of race wheels. I’m buying new, since I don’t want to trust something like this over ebay. I’m getting clinchers since it is what I know. I’m 5’11", ~175 lbs. My ‘A’ race this year is IMFL (first IM). My bike is a 2000 QR Kilo, 650c. I’m looking at a Renn Disc and Hed Jet 60 on the front. I’m also trying to keep cost as low as possible. I figure the Renn disc is a no brainer for me (but if you disagree, please let me know). Any other opinions on the front wheel? Thanks!
Try changing a deep dish clincher in a race like a 404… The tubular will change out much easier and faster, I sold my 404 clincher’s and bought tubulars for this reason alone…
You’re probably right, and maybe when I have some more time/money to experiment with tubulars I will, and make up my own mind. For now though I think the risk of me mis-handling tubulars outweighs any potential reward from having them.
Have the bike shop glue them on for you, then use the Tufo sealant. You will be golden. You will be happy you went this way in the long run. I was like you first with a set of 404’s in clincher’s. Now I run a Corima 4 spoke in the rear and a 404 up front, tubular no doubt.
I actually own both of the wheels mentioned, and raced the Gulf Coast Tri (1/2 the course) this spring. I am very happy overall with the Renn, no problems in about 300 miles once I lubed the pawls (a production issue with about 20 or so discs).
On the front wheel, I have a Velocity Spartacus 16 spoke, Hed Jet60 and soon a Tilium SS. The Velocity has very nice bearings but is flexy on highspeed bumpy corners…others have said the 20 spoke is great. The Hed has extremely tight bearing seals and I haven’t yet decided if it is actually any faster than the Velocity…and is very heavy. The rim depth is fine with less than 25mph xwinds, and I plan to do a few more 20 mile TT rides to figure out which front wheel to use on IMFL. Hopefully the Tilium SS will be my solution…fine in high crosswinds, lighter than either (the Hed is heavy and feels sluggish on climbs), and stiffer than the Velocity. Weight is mostly irrelevant on IMFL, I just need to find something versatile enough to ride on hard hilly courses like the Great Floridian also.
I have a 650c tubular Corima disc on ebay right now. There is a almost new Continental competition tubular($120) glued on. The high bid is around $275. It is in mint condition
I would go for tubular instead of clinchers. The Renn disc seems like a great choice but I wouldn’t go for a Jet 60 on the front. IMFL has a flat course so you may consider a Hed H3 in front. That would be a great setup. If you have a low budget maybe a front Hed Alps (wins “against” Jet 60).
If money is no problem to you… Zipp 404 in the front! This is going to be your first IM so I guess you are a short course guy so in the future you may think of getting a wheelset for sprint/oly Tris and then you will only have to buy the rear Zipp 404.
I’ve been working my way up the distance ladder the last few years, so I haven’t really settled on whether or not I want to be a short or long course guy. I’m trying to take a long term view of my involvement in this sport, so between that and budget, I am trying to keep cost down as much as I can. And while I like to think of myself as a decent athlete (5:15 1/2 IM), I’m not going to threaten any podiums anytime soon, so I don’t need to buy the best wheelset out there. My goal is to purchase a more or less “all-purpose” race wheelset that I can use for the next 2-3 years. Triguy42 mentioned that the Hed Jet front wheel is somewhat heavy, which is something I’d rather not have, so maybe the Tillium SS is a better front for me. Appears to be somewhat similar to the Hed Alps, but $100+ cheaper. Yes?
Get tubulars for race wheels…no brainer.
Get the tubulars… I would buy that Corima 4 spoke then get another front wheel… But get the tubulars. Changing a clincher race wheel is a bitch… Have you done it? It’s not like changing a clincher training wheel.
I have not done it. I’m bringing my bike in for a tune-up this week, so I’ll see if the LBS can give me a quick tutorial on clincher vs. tubular. I more or less know how they are different, but I need something a little hands-on before I change my mind.
I went tubular this year without any experience. After shredding a clincher on a training ride, I went our and bought a cheap set of tubulars for my road bike. Tubbies don’t shred. Everything else is easy.
Yeah the JetV60/V65 that I have is 878g not including the skewer. Amazingly enough that is 58g HEAVIER than an H3!!! The Alps is 200g lighter, $100 more expensive and according to Hed’s numbers slightly more aero. The Tilium is about 770g, maybe slightly less aero than the Alps (43mm vs 50mm but rim shape is important too). You could also consider it similar to the Zipp 303 at 38mm but $350 cheaper. I can’t say anthing about the Alps or Tilium bearings, but I’ll have my front later this week. I’m sure I’ll have a few comments good or bad, but for the $265 that Performance is selling them at, it seems like a very good deal. For Hed stuff www.analyticcycling.com is the cheapest place by far.
I agree with you on the speed thing. If I expected to be competing for a podium I would have to have the best wheel I could buy…lightest, strongest, most aero, etc. But instead I’d rather have something that is very aero, reasonably priced, reasonable weight and strong enough to not have truing problems for 500ish miles per year.
Oh, and yes there are advantages to tubulars…feel handling and durability…(but I have >10k miles on clinchers and never pinch-flatted…pinchflats are for idiots running 80psi), but disadvantages too:
- $80 flat tires
- worse aerodynamics due to the rim/tire joint area
- after changing a flat in a race (which takes a little bit less time than a clincher) you can’t take corners fast or you risk rolling the tire off and wiping hard
- no better rolling resistance unless using track glue.
- tubulars shred too when you hit a razor-sharp chunk of metal
Well, I got the Tilium today! Here’s a short summary of first impressions:
- Loud graphics…seriously.
There’s probably 20g of stickers on there. - Rim depth is 43.3mm and has a shape that looks very nice and sleek.
- Bearings are a bit tight on the seals but spin freely with no notchiness. They feel a lot like the Velocity bearings did at first, which have proven over the last 1000 miles of rain and grit to be excellent bearings. Probably after 50 or so miles the seals will loosen up just a tad. It spins very well by hand.
- Torsional stiffness seems extremely high without having excessive spoke tension.
- Spokes seem to be very evenly tensioned and the wheel is perfectly round and true.
- The included skewer looks nice, is well-machined and has a firm locking action. The lever part is probably thicker and heavier than necessary, and probably is the only reason it is 55g. Very good quality though.
Overall 1st glance it’s a butt-kicking wheel for the price. Definitely a bit heavier than Paul mentioned earlier at 837g, but hell…that’s lighter than an 880g Mavic Cosmic Carbone. Plus it definitely seems to have the strength I was looking for. I’ll be going for 20 miler tonight (weather permitting) so I hope to have more info soon. Hopefully the high strength doesn’t translate into excessive harshness, and the carbon rim keeps vibration under control.
The Jet 60 is a good wheel. Also look for the Hed Cx. It’s also a 60mm rim but the construction is a little diffferent. I owned both and thought the Cx was a little nicer. Aother good option is a Campagnolo Shamal. The Shamal aero tested about the same as the Cx but was less affected by cross winds. You should b able to find any of these wheels on ebay for $100-150 or so.
Can’t go wrong with the Renn. Do go with tubulars.
sounds good. i’ll be interested to read your ride report.
Alrighty, well Bonnie and Clyde (or whatever the other hurricane is called) decided not to dump huge amounts of rain on me today, so I managed to take the Tilium out for a 20 mile TT today. Despite still having sore legs from Saturday’s 8 hour stupidity, I managed a 21.0mph average. This means I was riding 22-26mph every time I wasn’t stopping for a blind intersection or light, which happens every 0.2 miles on this route. My all-time record for this course is 21.4mph with the Jet60 and Renn, rolling on Pro Race 20mm/23mm F/R. I swapped over the 20mm Pro Race from the Velocity onto the Tilium and rode with a Mavic Open Pro 32H rear. My best speed with the Velocity/Mavic combo was 20.5mph in calm air, and today I fought 15-25mph gusty crosswinds, so I would have to say it is definitely faster than the Velocity. I can’t use the old numbers as a good comparison though, since I can now casually go 20.2mph with the Velocity/Mavic combo. I’d have to do another 2 week round of 20 mile TT rides to actually know which wheel is the fastest. Outside of speed:
- Heavy gusts going between 2 buildings and a semi passing me at 50mph didn’t seem to affect me very much. I could feel it, but it was nothing compared to the Jet60. The wind wasn’t quite the 30+mph gusts of the springtime, but it was pretty damn close.
- It rolls quiet and smooth, no weird noises or whistles or clunking valve stem or anything.
- It is STIFF torsionally. No sideways flex or springiness when hitting off-angle bumps (intersections of the bike path and the roads) and no other bizarre behavior. This is a wheel I would feel comfortable taking highspeed bumpy corners on. I even did a full-power sprint to 35mph with no front-end shake on gearchanges. The Velocity was flexy enough to make it frightening when the chain goes BANG! as it jumps gears.
- Damping is very good (probably from the low spoke count and carbon/foam aero section), especially on really rough pavement or the 200 yard section of annoying “decorative” brickwork that was installed by a bunch of retards. It glides over the really rough stuff, and is probably only very slightly harsher than the Velocity. Given the huge improvement in strength, the tiny drop in shock absorbtion is well worth it.
- I hit a short section of 15% grade and it felt fine climbing too, even though I was stupid and started up it in a 42x16.
- Spindown was 2:05, which is pretty decent after only 20 miles on the rim. I expect this to improve even more once the seals break in.
Overall, my initial opinion still stands: a butt-kicking wheel. Four minor points:
- To true it you have to remove the tire and rim strip and use a special 3mm square-drive tool. Considering the apparent strength of the rim, I don’t expect to be truing it…perhaps ever.
- As mentioned, it’s really damn strong. This means it’s also heavier than maybe it needs to be…but reliability and torsional stiffness are worth a few extra grams to me. Maybe if I spent my time climbing at 15% all the time I would care…
- The huge graphics…wow. I’ll probably remove 1 logo from each side of the wheel. It’ll look better spinning that way anyway.
- The joint from carbon to aluminum isn’t the prettiest, and neither is the overall carbon structural hoop. It is pretty good, but not Zipp quality. Then again it’s less than half of Zipp’s price, and it’s certainly acceptable.
If I get a chance I’ll take it out to the Great Floridian course and do the 350 foot tall 12-18% grades out there on Sunday. Hopefully the hurricane will be past us by then with no damage.