I had my mind set on doing a marathon next spring, and doing it not just as a long workout but really trying to run it as fast as possible. It would be my first. My 10K PB indicates that I should be able to run sub 2.50 so that’s what I would be aiming for. I thought it could be a way to improve my running, my running endurance and my overall endurance.
I figured that since I’d been focusing on running up until the marathon I should be able to do only cycling and swimming for a couple of weeks after. The question is; will I be to beat up even for that? And will this destroy my first HIM?
Grateful for some input:
Doubtful that it would ‘destroy’ your HIM. Depending on your age/experience you should be able to have a respectable tri sesaon, though this is not optimal scheduling. However, I would caution you and others to abandon the idea of the marathon as a long/fast workout especially because this one will be your first and you probably aren’t running 140mpw. Best case scenario is that you take it easy one week post race while hobbling around and reintroduce meaningful swim/bike sessions in week two. Worst case scenario (which is highly possible for anyone) is that your legs and immune system are totally smashed and you are off for two weeks or more and go into your tri season weakend and depleted. If the goal is to improve your running, you would be much better served with consistent training complemented by several races in the 10k-1/2marathon range. The experience of the marathon will improve your marathoning for subsequent marathons but it isn’t going to improve your overall running in the short term. You may be able to draw on your marathon experience several years down the road in a future HIM or IM when the going gets tough late in the race. But not enough time to absorb that effort in six weeks and probably not six months either. Think consistency, not magic sessions.
Sure, Meb Keflezghi had a great race at NYC last year shortly after the Olympic. Similarly, you can find a bunch of ‘B’ level Kenyans who will pile on 5-6 marathons within a year. But remember: these guys have been running >100mpw at altitude for many years (meaning the marathon is a smaller percentage of total mileage for them), they are wafer thin, have unlimited access to recovery tools, and many will retire after a couple of years when they accumulate $10,000 of prize money so they can live like a king in their homelands.
I also would use caution when evalutaing many of the anecdotes on here that argue in favor of doing the marathon as tri prep because a lot of these marathon efforts aren’t as close to the edge as you are attempting to run. For example, guy/gal with 40min 10k capability (6:26 mile pace) comes on here and says “I raced X marathon in 3:30 and came back and had a good tri season six weeks later.” Good for them, but their situation is not analogous to yours because their marathon pace of 8:01min/mile is a plod compared to their lactate threshold pace of ~6:45 pace. That marathon may have been a monumental effort for that athlete but you are playing a whole different ballgame if you’re going out there from the gun at a pace not much slower than your LT. You should expect a different recovery timeline. For you the marathon will be an extremely long tempo run on oddly shaped asphalt and/or concrete roads at a pace ~15/20seconds slower than your 1/2 marathon pace (if you run according to your 10k PR). That workout, (aka, racing the marathon) is a beast of a session and should be treated with the utmost respect.
I live outside Detroit now (although I do not root for the professional teams here). I would note that Rodney Peete did win a playoff game as an Eagle after being a Lion and that Ty Detmer took the Eagles to the playoffs before being just a joke here in Detroit. Mike McMahon as a third stringer makes a lot more sense for the Eagles than he did as a starter for the Lions. We know that he’s not taking us anywhere, but will just be filling in if the real quarterback can’t play.
From my experience, I wouldn’t do it again. I attempted a half IM 2 weeks after my first marathon. Marathon was good, qualified for Boston even. The subsequent 1/2 was a total suffer-fest - like over 4 hours on the bike type of suffer - the run leg, ironically, wasn’t too bad at all, and I did have a very weak year for bike training, but still, I had absolutely nothing to give on the bike - I’m normally in the 2:45 to 2:55 range for a 90 km ride.
Your dates seem pretty close, especially for a first marathon. Don’t be surprised if you lose 1 week of training (swim, bike or run) entirely after the marathon and maybe up to 2-4 weeks of nothing but recovery running … my first really wiped me out. That’s the real risk that you run, injury either in training or in the race itself. My personal opinion is that if you are concerned at all about doing well in your 1/2IM is to not do the marathon. Pick one a month or two earlier or do a Fall marathon after the tri season is over. Also be careful with using those 10k predictors, 1/2 marathon is better, but even those are dicey for the 1st marathon, funny things start to happen to that curve after 20 miles. 10k time x 5 is a good 1st marathon predictor in my experience, but it all depends how well you prep for it.
I’m doing an early spring Marathon again this year. I ran a 3:07 PR at Boston last April and had what I consider a pretty good tri season at a variety of distances (sprint thru 1/2 IM). This year I’m trying to go sub-3, so I’m definitely racing it.
For me it’s all about having a goal to work toward over the winter months where I can’t get out on the bike anyway. Most of my work for the marathon will be done and in the bank by the end of February. I figure that once the weather gets better I can put running into more of a maintenance mode for a few months and focus on bike/swim. My first tri won’t be until May and my goal race this year IMLP isn’t until July, so I’ve got plenty of time to recover.
The season is kinda short around here, and I know that the schedulng is not really optimal, but this is the races I wan’t to do.
Theres two alternative HIMs; the first in early May and it has been known to be cold and rainy plus the swimming is in pool, so I´m not really up for that one.
The other one is just one week after my A OD so that too is out of the question.
Regarding an alternative marathon; there are several, but they are small, most the times not even 100 participants, and the one I was considering has over 15000. And I think for it to be really fun and for me to get motivated enough there will have to be a decent number of people around me.
If I wasn’t a poor student with really just enough money to not starve I would love to travel around the world picking the races that fit my plan. But that’s not reality…
I guess that my problem allso is that I feel that I wanna do everything at once and that soon I’ll be to old (I’m 28).
I’ll just have to prioritice… or go for it of course and pay for the concequencies afterwards.
Also be careful with using those 10k predictors, 1/2 marathon is better, but even those are dicey for the 1st marathon, funny things start to happen to that curve after 20 miles. 10k time x 5 is a good 1st marathon predictor in my experience, but it all depends how well you prep for it.
I’m aware of the fact that a marathon is a whole different ballgame, but that’s what I would aim for and that’s how I would pace my tempo runs and occational yasso800s.
I think it’s on the optimistic side but what the hell, I’ve hit the wall before
first off–you’re 28 and barely out of diapers, so don’t give me any of that “i’m old” bullshit. ok? LOL!
secondly–relax. think long term. there is alot to do, and hopefully you’ll have alot of time to do it. it is useless to try to cram everything into today, you’ll only end up frustrated and short on your overall goals. so, dig down, and decide what you really want to do. if you really want to run a fast marathon, work towards it. pick a HIM later on, so that you’ll be happy with your results. if you’re still in college, there is still the matter of picking up hot chicks, partying, studying and living life. you must make time for that, as we all do (the living of life that is…).
thirdly–make a 2 year plan. perhaps if you do that, you’ll be able to see that you can do the things you want to do over 2 years. now that you’re out of diapers, you’re seeing that one year flies by quickly and it is impossible to do it all in one year. alot of successful triathletes focus on a 5 year plan, so you can start with 2 year plan that will give you a gratifying big picture.
fourth–don’t be stupid, be smart! i don’t know if you’ve ever had an injury, but you certainly don’t want to get one. if we were all superheros I’m sure we would all race in the day and fight crime at night. but, in reality we’re ordinary humans (even though I bought a wonder woman cape I still can’t freaking fly, damn.). your body will need ramp up time, rest time, and time to do other stuff so you don’t burn out. there is no need to overwhelm yourself, just focus on priorities and give yourself the appropriate time to do them.
now, the main question is–have you given up your rattler yet?
Go for it!! I have had no problems, but the “experts” say I am nuts.
Now, I run my marathons, half marathons, oly tris, half ironmans on 6 hours of week training. I think the key is why are you racing? For me, I did my first marathon last year with maybe 10 miles a week running. This year I am going in with maybe 30 miles a week running. I think the key to any of this stuff is balance!! Racing is a lifestyle. I do not “focus” on anything other than swim, bike, run, DDR, health rider, sculling, and yes, I do road run races and Tris. Balance and do it 12 months a year.
I know, don’t make me cry. Plus, I was 6 when we had our last parade (sorry).
Good thing I’m a huge Flyers fan (this is our year…right?). Going to the game tonight, actually. Time to check on this Sidney Crosby kid.
I had tickets to and attended each of the Sixers’ home playoff games when they won in 1983. Unfortunately, they only played like 6 home games. “Fo’, fo’ and fo’”
“first off–you’re 28 and barely out of diapers, so don’t give me any of that “i’m old” bullshit. ok? LOL!”
Maybe I’m just bummed out because last weekend I woke up sunday morning and discovered that my forehead /hair ratio had changed, and not in a positive direction
Dave, I’m not an expert, but the 1/2 vs. marathon question was specific to maximizing performance for an Oly or a 1/2 IM. No one said you can’t do a marathon and still do well. You can get benefits from doing a marathon for sure as you have, but not necessarily maximize your potential and speed at the shorter distances. My times got faster at the sprint distance from a lot of IM training, but they would have been even faster with more specifically designed workouts for the shorter distances. It’s all about what the individual’s goals are as you’ve said before.
If you don’t go out and do a sub-2:50 while you’re in your prime, you’ll regret it for the rest of your life. Not that you have to do it at 28, but if having a fast marathon time in your pocket is a life goal, give it a shot (or three) before your 35th birthday.
(… keep in mind that the charts are not accurate if you don’t have the base - what does your 1/2M time indicate you’d do in a fullM?)
Jason, I agree. But I read some of the responses as if you do a Marathon, it will hurt you. So, it goes back to what I asked him. What are his goals? An oly is different than a HIM or a marathon. So, if he answers he is a generalist, I believe my answer is fair. Now, if he wants to focus on ONE event, then I would agree that specific training for that event would give a different answer. I know I would train differently if I just wanted to focus on an Oly distance vs a HIM vs a marathon. But, since I am no expert, just my experience and opinion.
dude, run the marathon. It is an awesome event- and a whole new level of pain that everyone should experience. Go for it- it may help your triathlon a bit, it may hurt it a bit, who cares. let er rip
Lundin, welcome to late 20’s. on the morning of my 29th birthday i nearly freaked out over my teeth…they just looked “old”. i freaking cried half the day. lesson learned, for my 30th i prepared 3 months in advance for it–got a make over the whole deal. woke up on my 30th and felt great.
this year, i’m feeling that my teeth look “old” again, and my birthday is around the corner December 9th. but the teeth, it’s hard to explain, maybe it’s all the damn espresso. they just look “different” than 5 years ago. anyway, also, around my eyes–here comes little lines, despite all of the eye creams. this really has me freaked out, i keep thinking of shooting botox in them. LOL! (really, i might do it. no. yes. shit.)
anyway, i’m sure you’re a good looking guy and the little chickies like you. men always get hotter as they get older, really, you shouldn’t worry about it!! everybody at some point wakes up, looks in the mirror and suddenly sees a little more age. the feelings that come with it pass, i promise. (unless you’re a neurotic woman like me. HA!!!)
