I have never understood how these two supposed groups, “roadies,” and “triathletes,” are some kind of separate, heterogenus, clearly, warring, circumscribed groups. It reminds me of, in software writing, programmers arguing about which is the best text editor, “Emacs” or “VI.” You’ve got your purists who like VI, and then you’ve got the Emacs people who do everything. Boy, will they go at it. And still are. But, if you look at it objectively, they are BOTH geeks, writing code. Its like people from Iowa laughing at people from Nebraska for being “country.”
So, what the hell?
Most triathletes are, or were road bikers, and road bikers sometimes do triathlons. Many of them float in and out. Some triathletes just quit doing tri’s and just ride their road bikes. The largest leg in a triathlon is the bike leg. Behind every triathlete is a “roadie,” or love for the bike. Generally, the best triathletes are best in the “bike” leg. People come in and out of both groups. However, I’m not naive to believe there aren’t bike shops and bikers who despise the machismo of triathletes. And triathletes who despise the rigid arrogance of road bike purists, who don’t really get into aero stuff. But, all in all, both groups ride and compete on bikes. I don’t understand it.
I totally agree. When it comes right down to it, we all have a passion for the bike, as most of the post here are bike related, except for those darn OT (no one ever posts a picture of their shoes!). When I go to the pool, the “speedo boys” don’t go “oh, look, there’s a triathlete, he’s wearing bike shorts in the pool, ha!”. And our running club, although very competitive, is very social, even to newbies. In these areas, the veterans typically help anyone.
As a programmer I loved your analogy. But there are differences. I’ve been an on and off roadie for the last 18 years, and a triguy for the last 16. I’ve seen a lot of crap from both camps. I’ve seen scary stuff from both, been taken out in both road races and triathlons, and recall the days when my roadie friends would call ‘Toro-Toro’ to mt Scott DH bars. Everyone has to learn sometimes, just hopefully not be falling in front of me. The two groups train different strengths, and in doing so use the road differently. A strong triguy can hold a solid pace for hours. A strong roadie is capable of great burst of speed. Sometimes these differences are fun and one can let the triguy lead out the roadie for a wonderfully clean city limit sign. Depending on my current focus I’ve been both the launchor and the launche, and it’s a gas either way. Other times it’s about as much fun as being a mainframe programmer at a Mac conference. Yup, you’re a geek like the rest of them, but tooled to accomplish different tasks via different methods. I encourage friends going from one pond to the other to follow the simple rule: “when in Rome…”. But you’re right, the elitist crapola sucks, we all love the same equipment, and we are all a bunch of silly folks with shaved legs riding our bikes further than most people drive on the weekend.
You are right - having rigid divisions amongst people who like biking is stupid. My point, though, is that to ride safely in a pack you need to learn how to do it, and make your way carefully at first. Softly softly catchy monkey, as the saying goes.
There is a big difference in that a rider that handles the bike poorly can endanger the safety of the group. It’s takes some degree of trust to be elbow to elbow travelling 35mph on the open road. Being able to handle the bike smoothly and communicate things like road hazards are a vital skill. That’s probably a big reason why bike groups may be more closed than other sports.
Spot on. Picking up the pace in a paceline (unless you’ve hit that section of the ride where it’s what you do) is a sign of inexperience. It’s hard to gauge (since, no matter what, you’re working harder in front). If you don’t have a lot of experience in a paceline, use a computer and monitor your speed. If it’s not flat, thats not enough though since on rollers the pace will change, the level of effort should remain consistent.
Being able to handle the bike smoothly and communicate things like road hazards are a vital skill. That’s probably a big reason why bike groups may be more closed than other sports.
Trust is built by “open” communication, not by being closed.
Actually, my experience has been that most triathletes were runners or swimmers with relatively little cycling experience although there are many exceptions.
Triathletes in general aren’t exactly renowned for their bike handling skills and that’s a reputation that they’ve earned. I’ve posted here a hundred times to newbie triathletes a) get a road bike first b) group ride with roadies to learn the basic cycling skills c) if you like triathlon then later get a tri bike d) keep your road bike for training and continue to develop your handling skills.
Being fast riding solo on a tri bike does not necessarily equate to a skillful cyclist.
Sorry that my post came across that way; I can see how that would happen.
As a former roadie turned to the dark side (but one who still rides with roadies), I’ve seen and continue to see triathletes (and even a couple of roadies) screwing up the work that a group of roadies are trying to accomplish by doing what the OP is describing. His response didn’t seem to address the fact that his ability to do long pulls at high speed detracts from the work that the group is doing; maybe they don’t want to have a long rest? His response addressed the other concern (squirrely-ness) roadies have with triathletes.
Ken, seems you and I are eye to eye on this one. I for one cant stand that your typical Tri guy cant hold his line for a shit. I have tried and tried and tried to get our local Tri club to work on even the most basic of skills such as paceline, proper drafting, split paceline, when to drop, how to pull around and on and on…I am often told "We dont need that, Tri is an *individual *sport. Then watch them squirm about the road and cross wheels. I am to the point that I wont even ride NEAR a group of them as it is so dangerous. I too come from a road backround…see your point 100%…that however was not what I was doing. This training ride was about 35 miles, about a 30mph average, I pulled or was chased 90% of the time (until I waited at a corner from the group). All had a great time, we then all went out to dinner - all long time buddies.
As someone who has NO roadie experience, and has never had the oportunity to ride with a bunch (don’t live near any, only used to see the peloton come past occasionally when I did), is there anywhere online to get some idea of what you’re discussing here (cat II/catIII, pacelines, split paceline etc). I’m intrigued, but a complete novice in these matters.
There are some cycling groups locally that I’ll be getting into in the coming weeks, but it’s sunday morning rides, nothing like what you’re discussing.
Sunday morning rides are usually the best way to start group riding. Our Sunday rides are longer and slower than Tuesday night or Thursday hill ride. The Sunday ride is a good time for newbies to learn about the pace line, etc. On Sundays we’re more interested in going for a nice long ride than we are about dropping other riders. These rides are definately more newbie friendly.
One way to look at it: as far as many car drivers are concerned there is no differences between roadies and triathletes, we are all just “in the way” and they will happily run you off the road without bothering to check if you have aero bars and a 78 degree seat angle or drop bars and a 73 degree seat angle.
A friend of ours who just started riding commented that she never realized there were so many subcultures in bike riding. Road vs mountain, road racing vs triathlon, and even within categories road racers vs recreational riders, single speeders vs freeriders vs downhillers vs cross country racers. Each group seems to have the need to belittle the other or look down on them in some way.
I was riding to the trailhead on my long travel full suspension mountain bike the other day wearing baggy shorts and a T-shirt with my camelback and helmet with visor. I waved at a road rider whom I know and would normally acknowledge me if I was on my road bike with my team outfit. He totally ignored me.
Why do we have to be such tribal creatures? Next time say Hi to the guy riding the Huffy home from the 7-11 with his sixpack in tow.
Actually, my experience has been that most triathletes were runners or swimmers with relatively little cycling experience although there are many exceptions.
Triathletes in general aren’t exactly renowned for their bike handling skills and that’s a reputation that they’ve earned. I’ve posted here a hundred times to newbie triathletes a) get a road bike first b) group ride with roadies to learn the basic cycling skills c) if you like triathlon then later get a tri bike d) keep your road bike for training and continue to develop your handling skills.
Being fast riding solo on a tri bike does not necessarily equate to a skillful cyclist.
That’s interesting information. I’ll try and remember that bit of advice.
It reminds me of, in software writing, programmers arguing about which is the best text editor, “Emacs” or “VI.”
Now you’re speaking my language! Go Emacs!
When I’m riding with the roadies, they’re just fine with me, as long as I stay the hell away from my aeros and don’t swerve/brake too much in the paceline. It’s all in the interest of minimizing crashes. If you do that, and maybe chat once in a while, you’ll be accepted just fine.
"Why do we have to be such tribal creatures? Next time say Hi "
I live in a rural area where people love their pickups and four wheelers but not bicycles. In fact there is only two other road riders besides my wife and I within our immediate area that we are aware of. We have to drive about forty minutes to the closest small city to go for our club group rides. They only other riders we see locally are usually DUI’s. We always wave at them, but they never wave back.
As someone who does both, road racing and tris, I have seen both worlds. The fact is pure roadies spend way more time on their bikes than triathletes. Think about all the time you have to train and then take away the swimming and running and replace those hours with more riding. You will undoubtably, be faster and a better bike handler. Roadies also race every weekend usually both days and sometimes multiple events in the same day. i.e. I have raced the masters 35+ and pro 1/2 race at the same event because there is enough time between starts. (I have also raced a tri in the morning and tried to do a crit in the afternoon. Not a good idea) Keith who works here and is a Cat 1 has over 25 races in already this year. I am not saying they are better athletes, just better cyclists. I have seen the top tri guys, Macca, Waldo, Jurgen, Norman Stadler etc. try to ride off the front of the Saturday morning ride in San Diego. It doesnt happen. There are enough strong Cat1 and 2 riders to chase them down. I always try to encourage triathletes to come out and ride with the road guys. Some simple common sense goes a long way. The first time a bunch of my “tri buddies” showed up to the wed nite road ride, one guy, who I didnt know, was wearing a speedo! He proudly claimed that it was just more comfortable than bike shorts. Another nite two of the guys crashed because one guy hooked his aerobars in the other guys rear mount water bottle carrier! If you want to wear your tri race gear then save it for your solo rides. Same goes for jetstreams, bento boxes, never reach systems etc. I have ridden with Macca, Craig Alexander and some of the other San Diego based pros quite a bit I have never seen them out on a group ride without a jersey, shorts and socks, but almost every amateur triathlete shows up in a cropped singlet and short shorts.I have heard some of the pro guys mockingly ask " racing today mate?" as they ride by those guys. Imagine how out of place a guy in a long sleeved skinsuit would look showing up for a group run or at the pool. Tri clothing is designed for racing triathlons. There is no swimming or running happening on group road rides so the appropriate clothing is cycling specific. If you have a road bike, use it. Save the super aero tt setup for solo training. Again, Jurgen, Macca et al do all their group training on road setups. Cheap ones at that. I have seen 105 components and cheap steel wheels on their training rigs. I think as triathletes our number one bike is our tri bike and we want to be on it as much as possible. I know my D/A P3 is way nicer than any of my road rigs but I only use it on solo rides and races it is not designed for group riding. Roadies will feel alot more comfortable riding in a group with a guy or gal on a cheap road bike with a jersey and shorts on than with a guy on a $20,000 campy record, carbon blade, TT bike in a speedo, weaving all over the place.
guy on a $20,000 campy record, carbon blade, TT bike in a speedo, weaving all over the place
You no I really got no qualms over what equipment someone rides - hell we got a bunch of guys who do our Wednsday night ride on cross bikes but that could be due tot he poor quality of the streets around here. There is even a really, really good MTB/Adventure racer type usually comes out for the group jam on a hard tail - does not slow him down one bit as he still stays in the fray even when the tempo tops 30! Call me a traditionalist, inflexible, whatever - I think the fact of the matter is that most of us really dont want to be motoring along and then find that you are sitting on the wheel of a little skinny dude wearing a speedo! Of course women in a speedo (grin), well if thats what they want to wear, then so be it!
Michael - what does it mean when you pass a women with a decal on the top tube of her bike that reads “Boobs to the tube?”