Actually he is dating my Niece, but that is not the point. I’m a newbie so don’t grille me, just tell me if I’m right and he is wrong or vice versa? This has become a big issue in the underground, within the family and I’m at the heart of it, so…
AKA Chris runs marathons, I think he is on his sixth. We got into a discussion about nutrition and hydration, and how he hits the wall at 20 miles, told me it is not cardio but his legs just give out and he walks off and on to the end of the marathon. Chris does not hydrate or nutrate during the race, for the most part (1 cup h20 during Carlsbad), and ends up sickly for the next week post race, DAH!
Chris says he runs a 3:50 ish marathon, and a 8:00 min pace for the first 20 miles. So I told him he is killling himself, that his body is eating itself up in an attempt to maintain fuel levels, but it is not working and his body finally goes on stirke at 20 miles. I’m know in the family for over researching anything (Tri training now being one of them), I’m not a nutrition guru, but watch what I eat and make sure I hydrate and nutrate during extended workouts?
Chris told me his stomach can not take it during the run, it just gets to upset (Insert Whine). I told him he has to train his stomach to take this stuff while running, just like training your muscles and cardio. He said if it is his altimate demise in running so be it! I told him he was writing checks his body can not cash and he will pay for what he is doing to his body.
Half the family thinks I’m being a mister know it all and have expressed I have no idea what I’m talking about because he has run in marathons and I have not, nor even competed in a tri yet (April!), and the other half says I’m right!
He is not eatting or drinking basically during a Marathon? Nuts, he has no idea what he is doing.
For a race under 2 hours, yep, you can ignore nutrition. But anything over 2 hours, what you eat during the
entire race, and pacing, will determine if you run a marathon, or just finish one. (Anyone can walk some or all of
a marathon)
So, my rule of thumb is if the race is over 2 hours, I start my nutrition with is carbboom gu every 20 minutes for
the entire race until the last 30 minutes. Depending on the temps, I will drink different amounts. But nothing
during a marathon, nuts!!
I’m not a nutritionist or a coach, but I have done a handful of marathons and am infamous for bonking… your niece’s BF probably isn’t doing any permanent damage (beyond the normal wear and tear of a marathon) but he will never do any better than he has done until he improves his nutrition plan.
It’s simple physics. If he has 2000 Kcal in reserve and 600 Kcal in his stomach at the beginning of the race (numbers are arbitrary and for argument’s sake)… guess where he’s going to run out of gas. At the 2600 Kcal mark - or in his case… 20 miles. There’s just no getting around it. Plus… it has been proven over and over that as you dehydrate your power drops signifigantly.
Basically you’re both right. If he wants to get faster he’s going to have to get stronger, but if he ever wants to finish he needs to fuel the machine.
Agree with the nutrition in principle. but it’s impossible to say why he is truly bonking at 20 without knowing more about the training he puts in for each race. It’s too simplistic to just say, “with proper nutrition, you will not bonk”. It could be a combination of factors.
Strange that he just accepts his fate. Strange, and lazy.
He is definitely hurting his performance, particularly if he is going 4 hours at anything. But it doesn’t have to be you who convinces him of this. He can read any of the research to know you are going to have to take in fluids and some nutrients in a marathon. Nancly Clark puts out a good book on this topic. You can also go to just about nay sports nutrition site and get this information as well. As someone who also gets an upset stomach with high sugar items like Gatorade, I kind of understand where he is coming from. But I had to try and try again until I found something that would work. If I stay wil maltodextrin based gels with a flavor that is not too obnoxious I am fine usually.
But, I have learned I have a lot less stress in life and don’t have ulcers because I don’t worry about others because I have enough problems of my own to deal with. Offer the advice, if he rejects it, then move on in life and focus on your own successful plan and maybe he will learn by example.
Keep in mind that 2000 kcal in “reserves” is a reference to stored glycogen in the muscles/liver. You also burn a great deal of fat in a race… it’s not all glycogen. So saying that if you start with 2000 and 600 in the stomach, you will bonk 2600 kcals down the road, is wrong.
Of course, I have no idea what the ratio is for myself, so I tend to just go a long with your statement to make life simple.
I also have a hard time with anything in my stomach during a 1/2 or full marathon. But there is no reason why a gel (pretty much just sugar) should sit in your stomach and slosh around in the middle of a marathon. I’ve done some marathons without food and it wasn’t much of an issue. It certainly wasn’t optimal either. But no water?!? That’s just stupid.
Get him on a scale before a run. Get him on a scale after. After the sudden 4 lbs weight-loss, point him in the direction of studies correlating dehydration and lack of performance.
Yeah… I know it’s different for everyone, which is why I threw in the “arbitrary” qualifier. All I can say is that it sounds like whatever this guy’s energy stores are… they’re gone by mile 21.
Chris is an idiot, he’s bonking so he needs calories on the run. There are many sourses he could go to and doubt they would all upset his tummy.
By the way, I don’t think “nutrate” is a word
You are 1000% correct. As someone else said “can’t fix stupid. Next” Actually that is a Rich Strauss quote I believe.
Tell him to try gel and make sure you chase it with water. Hell even a half of a gel works. every 15-30 minutes after 1-1.5 hours. There he gets to be stubborn jack ass for the first 1.5 hours. Furthermore, try Hammer Gel. No one can tell me that their GI system can’t handle maltodextrin. That’s a load of crap! When he finishes the marathon at his first half pace he should cut you a check.
So everyone… Don’t be a Chris. There is no hitting the wall, that’s 70’s crap. Eat!!! It’s called bonking now anyways. Tel him to get with the times.
Chris and I dissagree anyway, he said he hates biking and despizes swiming. As far as the weight loss, after his marathons he (I’m told by the naysayers) is frail and weak, looks like he is sick and ends up sleeping for long hours the day of and days after the race. The other item I forgot to mention is the guy drinks like a fish, hard alcohol, social drinking, up to the day before the race. Now I’m not against drinking, I added a stout in the evenings, limit one, because I think it helps in many areas.
Also another note is he and I are on the light side, I’m at 155 ish 5’10" he is 140ish and 5’11" so major pounds is not an issue. I’m not trying to get him to see it my way, I mentioned it and offered a book, that was it. He seems to be following a ramp up and taper down training plan so he has that going for him. I just don’t see the need to bonk when you just don’t have to. Thanks for the input from everyone!
I understand nutrate was not a word but it just sounded so good, I was thinking out side of the box
Just for fun, I say you make a bet with him that the untrained newbie triathlete (you) can get to a 3:30 marathon before the experienced, stubborn marathoner who won’t eat (him). You won’t need to rush your development too quickly to get there since he doesn’t sound too open to changing his approach.
Oh, and when you succeed, be prepared for him to blame genetics :).
Funny I did think of something similar but I can not be that way, I have the family to consider, so I thought I would find out what his plan is for future Marathons, and jump on one of them. We discussed my training and his, I’m currently doing 6 mile loops with 4 miles being almost straight up, and keeping my heart rate at or under 150 and keeping a 8-8:30 pace, he told me he is doing a 4 mile flat loop and running a 7:30-8 min pace. I think these are close. Funny how he was telling me at dinner the other night how his goal is to break 3:30 mark but he just can not seem to do it, said he did a 3:45 in Vegas but also bonked at 20 miles. He said he could not understand the difference between Carlsbad and Vegas…um I told him hills?
Not only is Chris an idiot relative to his marathon running, but this attitude he has is going to land him in financial ruin and drag your niece along with him if the relationship remains. That he just accepts that his own plan isn’t going to get him where he wants to go, but won’t try anything else… Yup, stupid.
As others have mentioned, its Chris and not you. Based on your comments, it sounds like Chris and your family for whatever reason will dismiss anything you say or recommend. Simply tell him and them, don’t take my (your) word for it, go to ANY viable resource that knows anything about marathoning (books, local running store, websites, etc.) and challenge him or them to find information that supports NOT taking in nutrition/calories and hydration as part of an “in-race” marathon strategy.
