I remember reading somewhere why, (I think) but I can’t find it. So why is he building up a new bike to ride the TOC TT with? Is Cannondale sponsoring him for the event, not that their is anything wrong with it. Is it to go apples to apples with Chrissie?
I remember reading somewhere why, (I think) but I can’t find it. So why is he building up a new bike to ride the TOC TT with? Is Cannondale sponsoring him for the event, not that their is anything wrong with it. Is it to go apples to apples with Chrissie?
What happens if Slowman nails his ride on a Cannondale and is faster than on his P3. Will the whole ST slant towards Cervelo suddenly come to a halt and Cannondale is now the best…what will this mean for FIST, as his fit will be different - or is it better. End of Days for sure…along with the tornadoes earthquakes and the like.
The wonders of marketing and product placement!
Tattoo parlors everywhere are experimenting with ways of making the cervelo ‘e’ into the cannondale ‘c’ without need of a pesky tat removal.
I’m pretty sure his fit will be the same… that’s one of the non-negotiables for Dan, and is the crux of the FIST system. You have fit coordinates, you find the bike/bar combo that complies with those coordinates, you take your coordinates from bike to bike.
once again the anti cervelo sarcasm fails
any good cervelo nazi knows the slice is just as good as a P2C, and thus worthy of praise.
I remember reading somewhere why, (I think) but I can’t find it. So why is he building up a new bike to ride the TOC TT with? Is Cannondale sponsoring him for the event, not that their is anything wrong with it. Is it to go apples to apples with Chrissie?
What happens if Slowman nails his ride on a Cannondale and is faster than on his P3. Will the whole ST slant towards Cervelo suddenly come to a halt and Cannondale is now the best…what will this mean for FIST, as his fit will be different - or is it better. End of Days for sure…along with the tornadoes earthquakes and the like.
I’m pretty sure his fit will be the same… that’s one of the non-negotiables for Dan, and is the crux of the FIST system. You have fit coordinates, you find the bike/bar combo that complies with those coordinates, you take your coordinates from bike to bike.
Did you read the link…?
i published a second article in the series yesterday. the slice is a great fit for me, and so is the p3. even tho they’re geometrically somewhat different. how is that possible? here’s the caveat: the slice is a great fit if i use a low profile aerobar, or, if i use a medium profile aerobar and a very low front end otherwise.
in this case, i’m using a devox (from felt) as the aerobar, with no headset spacers and a moderately flat stem. under these conditions, the slice works well for me, because the devox is a very low profile aerobar. under any other conditions - such as trying to use the aerobar that comes standard equipment on the slice - i would not have a prayer of that bike fitting me.
i’m a more natural fit on a p3, that is to say, i can ride a wider assortment of aerobars on the p3, and that bike is a little longer than the slice, and, really, i prefer the P3’s extra length. but, i’m slightly long in the torso, and i ride steep and i ride moderately low, so, the p3 is a bit more up my alley.
but any bike is a construct, and, that construct is made of sub-assemblies, the frame + aerobars + stem + headset top cap and spacers, all of which have their own geometries. you mix and match those sub-assemblies to get the geometry you want out of that construct. there are two non-negotiables: this construct must fit under my fit coordinates; and it must handle properly once fitted to my fit coordinates.
look at it this way. you wouldn’t buy a running shoe that wouldn’t fit, would you? even if it was pretty, and sexy, and all the boys were buying it. this, because you’re foot is the size it is. likewise, i wouldn’t buy a frame that did not fit my fit coordinates, because my body is the size it is. but (and this is an imperfect analogy) the shoe is a construct, made up of a sock, and an orthotic. depending on how thick the sock is that you choose, and the size and shape of the orthotic, this will slightly alter the fit of the shoe. but once it’s all done and you have the shoe on, and you go running, the shoe better work for you.
likewise, shoe + sock + orthotic = fit, just as bike frame + stem pitch/length + aerobar = fit. but fit isn’t everything, either in bikes or in shoes. the running shoe must, for lack of a better term, handle. it must support your feet, and feel appropriate. you have to like running in these shoes, they have to provide support, safety, with perhaps a requisite sprightliness. likewise a bike. so, the bike first of all must fit, and then it must handle once it’s fit.
these are the requirements i had of a bike in 1980, and they remain the same requirements 30 years later. for some reason, a lot of you don’t have those same requirements i have, or you think those requirements somehow no longer apply. and that’s fine. nevertheless, i remain committed to fit, comfort, and performance in the bikes i ride (bikes costing what they do).
imagine a shoe that you liked just fine, but, you could only wear it with a particular orthotic and a very thin sock. that’s sort of like this slice for me. it’s not a natural choice, but, within a narrow range of aerobars and stem configs, i can ride this bike fine. were i to talk to a salesman in a bike shop selling c’dales, felt, slices, plasmas, etc., the salesman would execute a bike fit on me, then describe under what conditions the slice would work (what aerobars i could use, what stems, etc.). then i’d have to be willing to pay the up-charge to having the changes made. likewise, if i were a little longer of leg, or, a little slacker in my seat angle preference, the converse would be true: the slice would be the more natural fit for me, the p3 would be more of a stretch (figuratively and literally).
but any bike is a construct, and, that construct is made of sub-assemblies, the frame + aerobars + stem + headset top cap and spacers, all of which have their own geometries. you mix and match those sub-assemblies to get the geometry you want out of that construct. there are two non-negotiables: this construct must fit under my fit coordinates; and it must handle properly once fitted to my fit coordinates.
Dan,
Well said.
So why is it then when you visually survey or look at the bikes being ridden by maybe half the triathletes these days they are so far away from that construct?
I wasn’t actually referring to how the bike fit, I was more referring to why that particular bike. And I understand everything you posted about getting to a fit on a frame.
I assume if you have already been given the order of riders and that’s how you know your going to be 1 minute before Chrissie. So to make it a true apples to apples ride between the 2 of you, you are choosing to ride the Slice, in a NASCAR sort of way.
not sure I understand what you’re getting at. Did you read his reply to this thread?
but any bike is a construct, and, that construct is made of sub-assemblies, the frame + aerobars + stem + headset top cap and spacers, all of which have their own geometries. you mix and match those sub-assemblies to get the geometry you want out of that construct. there are two non-negotiables: this construct must fit under my fit coordinates; and it must handle properly once fitted to my fit coordinates.
Dan,
Well said.
So why is it then when you visually survey or look at the bikes being ridden by maybe half the triathletes these days they are so far away from that construct?
i’ll take a stab at it:
- There are a lot of cycling stores selling TT bikes to triathletes without knowing how to fit someone onto a TT bike.
- Not everyone knows or has the time to do the research into fitting themselves or ensuring they get the proper fit as a beginner.
- This ties in with #1, but I think back to when i was a beginner, I trusted what the cycling store owner was telling me since you know…he is the owner and should know what he is talking about. Thankfully my guy was good but there are a lot of them that I don’t think truly understand.
- triathletes seem to be all about the looks. So they buy whatever looks the best and try to fit themselves into that bike. No matter what.
i am sure there are others…
- triathletes seem to be all about the looks. So they buy whatever looks the best and try to fit themselves into that bike. No matter what.
But Dan’s post would seem to suggest that doing that isn’t a huge stretch. He took two bikes from opposite sides of the fit spectrum and made them work without compromising handling or resorting an unusual setup.
I think the idea that you have to ride the frame that fits is overblown for most people. One frame might fit more optimally, but most people can ride a wide variety of brands without having to make significant compromises. On ST, the answer to “which bike” is always, “the one that fits”. Many can fit just fine.
- triathletes seem to be all about the looks. So they buy whatever looks the best and try to fit themselves into that bike. No matter what.
But Dan’s post would seem to suggest that doing that isn’t a huge stretch. He took two bikes from opposite sides of the fit spectrum and made them work without compromising handling or resorting an unusual setup.
I think the idea that you have to ride the frame that fits is overblown for most people. One frame might fit more optimally, but most people can ride a wide variety of brands without having to make significant compromises. On ST, the answer to “which bike” is always, “the one that fits”. Many can fit just fine.
in those circumstances, see #1.
Considering the Slice just took the Team TT … not even the Cervelo P4.
Considering the Slice just took the Team TT … not even the Cervelo P4.
Actually…considering that the Cervelo team isn’t exactly stacked with TT’ers, I thought they did pretty damned well to be within 40s of the top time and slotted into 5th place. Kind of an “overachievement moment” for them.
It’s not the Indian, it’s the arrow 
.
It’s not the Indian, it’s the arrow
Yawn…
BTW, I’m pretty sure that an Indian without an arrow would end up a little more hungry than an Indian with an arrow…not to mention that the Indian with the best performing arrows (and the same shooting ability of the other Indians) would end up the least hungry of all 
edit: Oops…I thought you’d stated it the other way around…hehehe…Oh well, my point still stands
“He took two bikes from opposite sides of the fit spectrum”
you’re right, but not* precisely* right. in this article i compare several bikes of this size. note in the graph, in that article, the slice and the kueen k are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. had i placed a blue or a plasma on that graph, i think they’d have been farther apart from the kueen k (and the p3) than the slice.
so, if you go from the kueen k to the slice, or to the scott plasma, let’s say, then the gymnastics get harder.
as it was, going from the p3 to the slice was not that hard, assuming i used the felt devox bar. i could’ve also made it work with a visiontech bar. but, had i wanted to use a profile t2, or a syntace, then it would’ve been very hard to match my fit coordinates.
Will you be posting a final build and photos? Having a Cannondale Slice as well, I am interested in seeing the final product and thoughts.