I currently only race Sprint and Olympic Distance races, so I have never done a Long Course training program. But my training programs always contain numerous brick sessions.
I am surprised that Dan’s IM program did not contain a single brick session. Is this usual for Long Course ?
My whole career had almost no brick sessions, unless you count the 500+ races I did…Bricks are more for your mind than your body, and my mind was fine. But a lot of folks seem to get a lot of comfort out of them, so to each his own…
Monty,
Not that I can compare to your tallent or expertise but might this have some thing to do with your race schedule as well, that is the 500+ races? Part my choice and part where I live but if I get 2-4 races a year that’s it. If you are racing more often your body is used to it.
I remember doing my first tri a sprint and having done no brinks that was fun adjusting to the run. After doing more bricks in training I got used to the bike to run transition. I suppose after doing this for several years it’s more of a mental game like stated.
Gordon
Monty actually did 500+ bricks… =)
When you’re first starting, a few bricks will let you know how that run will feel without having to go to the race. Once you get past that point (and get in better shape), there’s no physiological benefit. All you’re doing is getting a crappy run in on tired legs; you’d benefit more from resting all day after the ride, and running faster at night.
Please please please stop it with the facts man…the newbies are going to get all flustered and confused.
But it hurts to see the same recommendation every day - “do more bricks”, or “bricks as often as possible”. Next you’ll see people recommending unicycle training.
bricks offer no physiological benefit, although they may help you sleep at night or complete 2 work outs on a busy schedule.
IM sets = bricks, just think about it.
**But it hurts to see the same recommendation every day - “do more bricks”, or “bricks as often as possible”. **
Not as painful as “Should I ride my road bike or tri bike in a hilly tri?” or “Should I use my light wheels or my heavy disc in a hilly race?” Those make me cringe and won’t go away any more than the tubular vs. clincher debate.
Chad
Shoot - all I do is bricks. Not by choice. My schedule only allows me to train in the morning. Blah!
I want to make a solid steel disc wheel, just to show that weight doesn’t matter that much. That, or pack my wheel cover with bags of shot.
**But it hurts to see the same recommendation every day - “do more bricks”, or “bricks as often as possible”. **
Not as painful as “Should I ride my road bike or tri bike in a hilly tri?” or “Should I use my light wheels or my heavy disc in a hilly race?” Those make me cringe and won’t go away any more than the tubular vs. clincher debate.
Chad
no worse than the recommendation to run long the day after your long bike ride “to get your body use to running on tired legs”.
How does that gel with the specicifity that is also posted regularly
.
How does that gel with the specicifity that is also posted regularly
do the runs with your running shoes, and the bikes with your tri bike.
Specificity? In a race, the bike leg is slow. You don’t need to practice riding slow to ride slow in the race, so train them separately. If you’re not semi-fresh for the run, you’re screwed anyway.
the only bricks i ever hear coaches who i trust reference are “t-runs,” short for ‘transition runs,’ which might be a 60, 100, whatever, mile bike ride followed by a run as short as 3 miles. this, just to get you ready for what it feels like to run off the bike. but i think most ironman athletes know how that feels and doing t-runs isn’t going to make that sensation ever be any different. it’s like sticking your finger down your throat, to know what upchucking feels like. you made yourself throw up. good. now you know. but it’s never going to feel any different with practice.
what does matter to me is that the ride, or run, be of a good quality. i’d much rather have an athlete ride 100 or 120 miles, or run 15 or 18 miles, than run 80 miles followed by a 5-mile t-run. what i want is for the athlete to know what a 120 mile ride feels like, so that when he/she is 90 miles into an ironman ride, that’s territory well covered in training. also, a 120 mile ride is going to prepare you for the marathon better than a 90 mile ride followed by an 8 mile run is going to prepare you for it.
what i want is for an athlete to always build into his or her race. you should always feel the race coming to you, instead of sliding away from you. so, you ride for 70 or 80 miles, then you start racing. build into your race through taking the swim as an exercise in positioning and executing, not racing. ride 70 or 80 miles as an exercise in conserving and executing, not racing. if you start the race at 75 miles, you have 47 miles worth of a race in front of you. that’s a long race, and for you to have that kind of fitness, you ought to be very familiar with these miles that occur between 100 and 125. then you can conceive of a 25, 30, or 40 mile final segment of the bike ride where you’re starting to race, that is, when you’re building into your race during the bike ride rather than tiring near the end of your bike ride.
most folks, pros included, just don’t have enough energy to ride a half dozen 100, 115, 125 mile rides, and do the requisite 15, 18, 20 mile runs, and sift in appropriate recovering time, and do it all in the confines of a manageably short ironman campaign, and do bricks. something has to go. i’d rather jettison the bricks, so that my athlete can take that energy and invest it in long rides and long runs.
How does that gel with the specicifity that is also posted regularly
Specificity means training the right muscles in the right zones. If you are going to run a race at 90% of your V02max, then you need to do some run training at 90% of your V02max (instead of row boat training at 70% of V02max). IF there was an important physiological improvement that occured when running off the bike, then yes…brick training would be important for physiological reasons. As it turns out, running is running and you should do lots of it. The best way to do that is to do it fresh.
As far as I am concerned, the bike-run brick as a workout is highly overrated.
What most age groupers would benefit from is more swim-bike “bricks”.
Guys wonder why on race day they are cooked 4 hours into the bike. Of course, their bike rides are large group rides with tons of coasting and stopping. Race day rolls around and suddenly 4 hours into the ride guys are shelled.
The problem is that they never actually do a real race simulation ride that involves no drafting no coasting and not stopping with a hard 1 hour swim tacked to the front. 4 hours into the ride on racec day is actually 5 hours of exercise, and 1 hour swim+4 hour bike is generally much more depleting than a straight 5 hour ride.
Personally I think there is more value to a hard 60 min swim, followed by a faster than race pace 4 hour aero ride with no drafting and no stops than there is in doing a 6 hour “latte” group ride filled with stops (most people can’t get the logistics down to do a 112 mile ride without stopping…which then becomes quite a bit different than race day…).
Sorry for derailing the thread…back to the discussion about training on tired legs, but if you want actually be ready for race day, you have to do some workout that are like Ironman race day.
DEv
oh man I hate that one. what utter nonsense.
to the OP: I used to do a lot of bricks (2/week - seriously) but then realized all I needed what a short transition run off the bike maybe once in a while… I got a lot faster once I ditched the bricks.
AP
The problem is that they never actually do a real race simulation ride that involves no drafting no coasting and not stopping with a hard 1 hour swim tacked to the front.
I’d wager it’s closer to:
oh man I hate that one. what utter nonsense.
+2!!