I acknowledge the point that Taormina elected to work rather than sit (and all of the “what if” scenarios that flow from that…). However, it seems to me that the article is based on the conclusion that Taormina made a SIGNIFICANT contribution to the break (and that this is why Harrop/Taormina stayed away from Lindquist/Williams). I confess that the coverage I saw was intermittant and interrupted, but from what I saw Harrop was on the front for the bulk of the time. I think Harrop also showed her clear superiority by riding away from Taormina on the last lap. So one must ask the question - “did Taomina’s decision to work rather than sit really make any significant difference?”. I suspect it didn’t have as great an influence as Slowman seems to suggest.
Regardless, I agree that the smart countries are going to come up with some selection/award scheme which promotes racing as a team, rather than as individuals.
As an Australian, I was annoyed by the Australian selection of the womens team - we had one standout chance (Harrop) and two who were never a chance of either winning themselves, or of helping Harrop to win (so one must ask - why the hell were they there at all when we had Snowsill and Jones available?). Also, imagine if Nicky Hackett had raced. She would have been strong enough to work with Harrop. That would have got Harrop to the start of the run faster and fresher. A couple of seconds would have made all the difference.
As for the mens team - well I can’t really fault that. Bennett was world number 1 at the time of the selections. Robertson was reigning world champ at the time of the selections. Thompson smashed everyone at the selection races (jeez, if he hadn’t of crashed he would have been in the mix at the end). You would have to say that all 3 were a chance. And then we had Walton, Atkinson, Stewart etc in reserve…
One final point - did anyone else notice that the women won the way the men usually do & the men won the way the women usually do? Usually, the men’s winner comes from the chase group. Usually, the women’s winner comes from the breakaway group. In Athens, the womens break was too small (only 2 people, one of which was stronger than the other). The men’s break (6 people) had “critical mass”.
well, getting back to the women, and shelia. she not only botched the tactic from the team perspective, but rode stupidly as an individual as well.
the thing for her to have done from either view would’ve been to sit on the aussie. that way, she cannot lose. if the chasers catch the leaders the chasers are tired, as well as the aussie - while sheila is fresh. the REALLY smart thing at that time wouldve been to sit on the other three at that point - possibly attacking on the last hill.
if the two chasers never catch them, the race is hers to lose.
honestly, the article about her being incensed over draft legal racers using smart, basic tactical savvy said it all. the woman is evidently not interested in tactics. at least not being interested in them is a little better than just being utterly clueless, as she most certainly appeared. noble perhaps, but dim.
I think you are being a bit harsh on Taormina. I figure she was on the rivet just trying to hang onto Harrop. If she didn’t help Harrop at least a little bit, then Harrop was going to get rid of the passenger earlier.
OK, I admit I am an old school wanker in many ways, but, the proposed “incentives” to try and secure a gold medal for “your country” in triathlon rub this old school wanker the wrong way.
Specifically, the idea of paying 20K to the gold medal winner, and 30K each to the two team-mates that help the winner to get the medal (assuming an 80K pool of money to pay out) makes the Olympics even more blatantly a professional event, rather than an amateur event. It’s one of the reasons I hate to see NBA players in the basketball Olympics…I really wish they would haven’t received the bronze. When one of the track “stars” of the US said that he wanted to show how good he could be in the “professional” track meet scene (he was referring to the OLYMPICS!) compared to the amateur events he’d been in, it made my skin crawl.
I realize there is the arguement (which I think is very often true)that MANY other countries’ Olympians are those countries’ versions of our Professional athletes, so, we should allow our Pro’s to compete against their professional Amateurs in order to increase our medal haul. I think that’s BS. Is another medal granted to the US actually that important? Is a medal count actually that important? Is it more important than providing true US amateurs the opportunity to compete on a world stage against the best amateurs (even if they are professional amateurs) from other countries that are too poor to be able to support Professional Athletics? Do the well-paid professionals in the US really need (and/or appreciate) the notoriety of an Olympic medal compared to the amateurs?
I’d actually watch the US basketball team if they were college players picked to participate in the Olympics…I’ll never watch a bunch of overpaid NBA millionaire “stars” with their mostly crappy attitudes, as they play like a bunch of individuals (not a team) to try and win a medal. To me, winning a gold medal with NBA members isn’t worth anything. I’d be more proud of a bunch of college guys giving the game everything they can for the TEAM, even if they lost early in the tournament.
Like I said, old school wanker here…consider the source and ignore the rant…believe me, I know that’s all it is: Wanker Rant! That would make a good screen name, wouldn’t it?
I’m sorry, how did we get onto basketball? Also, what is a “professional amateur”? I guess I touched a nerve here re the failure of the NBA stars. Take a couple of breaths and have a lie down
yes that is true i think, ozzy bill. if sheila was actually just barely hanging onto harrop - completely over her head - her race sorta makes some sense.
however, that does not explain her riding side by side with harrop early in the race, and again i thought the description of her attitude toward tactical riding in slowman’s article was somewhat telling. truthfully i do not know if harrop is capable of simply riding away from sheila in terms of “getting rid of the passenger earlier” before she ( sheila) rode herself into the ground, but at this level i would sorta doubt it, myself.
i will maintain that sheila rode the worst tactical race ever televised, for whatever reason.
I thought you were referring to the entire article written by Slowman, so I branched out to the payout option suggestion.
Sticking to strictly tactics. Yeah, the three screwed up. They could have made Harrup’s race MUCH harder to the point that she wouldn’t have a even medalled…unless she is like Lance Armstrong!
As far as taking a deep breath…I don’t get worked up about it, I can write like that for hours at a pulse rate in the low 40’s! Thanks for the concern, though
If Lew is serious about having a team tactics discussion, he may want to invite Team Kinesys to the table as they have proven very successful using them on the ITU circuit.
Have US runners ever used team tactics at an international meet? Has anyone except a few African nations? I think that triathlon is a lot more like running or swimming than cycling even where you allow drafting on the bike so I doubt the US will ever use much in terms of team tactics although individual athletes may use tactics that make whatever sense to help him or her win at that particular race.
“I figure she was on the rivet just trying to hang onto Harrop.”
that doesn’t appear to be the case. according to lew, sheila felt great up the first hill, “just as in portugal.” then, starting lap-2 she began to get cramps in her legs, as if she was salt-depleted.
i have noticed, however, that for me cramps are more heat related than electrolyte related, and athens was very hot and quite humid.
in any case, if i understand it right it appears that at least for the first 2 or 3 laps she was able to take her pulls.
in any case, if i understand it right it appears that at least for the first 2 or 3 laps she was able to take her pulls.
hmmm, I agree she was taking turns, but I stand by my original comment that Harrop did the bulk of the work (at least that is the way it appeared from the coverage I saw). Also, I think you have to factor in the likelihood that if she had not worked at all, Harrop would have got rid of her. Accordingly, I think it is wrong to say that she had the option of just sitting.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, uninformed as it happens to be in this particular case. Truth is Sheila felt extremely strong, contributing fully as she and Loretta put 50 seconds on Barb and Susan on the first lap. On the second lap, however, she started to cramp in her right calf and by the third lap it had spread to the hamstring. She still felt strong, but putting full power to the pedals was just too painful - and when the cramping spread to the inside of her thighs on lap five, her race was essentially done.
The same sort of cramping had happened in her first ever race as a professional - at South African Championship near Capetown in March of 1999 - but not untii the last 3k of the run. It didn’t appear again during the intervening 73 races in her six year career - which is why it wasn’t even on the radar for either of us. If we investigated, we would probably find she is at risk for hyponatremia - and if she were planning to continue in the elite level of the sport, we’d make the proper dietary allowances. But she said long ago that this would be it for her, so the question is essentially moot.
That said, I take nothing away from Loretta. She’s one tough cookie and both Sheila and I have enormous respect for both her ability and courage.
What is the Australian reward system? In the Olympic bike road race, they didn’t care who won as long as they got the gold if you read their interviews. That’s a bit nobler than trying to win without using drafting to its optimum use in a draft legal race.
It’s really hard to drop one rider by one self in a two man break unless it’s hilly or one rider is much weaker than the other ( for a moment or all the time ). One always has the option of not working in a break and seeing what kind of wrath this incurs.
Newly participating in the sport but folowing it for a long time I can’t help but think that there two races. A team one (draft legal and gold medal is awarded similar to cross country races.) And then an individual race no drafting - maybe longer.
If this shows up here imagine the qualifying to make a national team. I am sure that people with potential to make a team whose national body has chosen and international event as the selection meet could spend some time paying athletes from other countries or promising to return the facour if they will pull for them and them only on a bike leg or help them on the swim. It is certainly something that should be addressed. I really don’t like the idea of a reward system in an idividual sport being geared to the team finish. It seems to me it just takes the worst of the two genres (individual and team.)
Perhaps you would be willing to cite an actual example of their “success”? When you try, I think you’ll find their team was effective only in races with a very modest level of competition. Most of the team could not even qualify for world cup races, and when they did go against quality fields, they were essentially irrelevant.
Does that mean tactics used by Team Kinesys are of no potential value? No, but it points out a real dilemma. A team will work if and only if it has members with world class talent - but when you get more than one member with a real chance to win the whole race, you run head-on into personal ambition. Anyone remember the 1986 Tour de France, with Lemond and Hinault on the same team? The team was supposed to work for Lemond, but Hinault was having nothing at all to do with being a domestique. Do you want to be the one to tell Barb, the #1 ranked athlete in the world, that she has to sublimate her ambitions for those of Sheila? Or Sheila, the current world champion, that she has to do the same for Barb? I suggest you come in full body armor.
Mark Montgomery’s suggestion for reverse financial incentives is interesting - but will likely be either unaffordable for USAT or totally ineffective. Why? Because winning a gold medal is worth far more in residual value than the piddly extra bonus being offered for deferring to a teammate.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, uninformed as it happens to be in this particular case. Truth is Sheila felt extremely strong, contributing fully as she and Loretta put 50 seconds on Barb and Susan on the first lap. On the second lap, however, she started to cramp in her right calf and by the third lap it had spread to the hamstring. She still felt strong, but putting full power to the pedals was just too painful - and when the cramping spread to the inside of her thighs on lap five, her race was essentially done.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, uninformed as it happens to be in this particular case. Truth is Sheila felt extremely strong, contributing fully as she and Loretta put 50 seconds on Barb and Susan on the first lap. On the second lap, however, she started to cramp in her right calf and by the third lap it had spread to the hamstring. She still felt strong, but putting full power to the pedals was just too painful - and when the cramping spread to the inside of her thighs on lap five, her race was essentially done.
What?? You say my opinion is uninformed and then go on to promptly confirm that Sheila was struggling after one lap. Sorry, but that is not “contributing fully” to the break in my book. I stand by my original comment - Loretta did the bulk of the work, and she would have almost certainly won if she had someone with her who was capable of “contributing fully” to the break (for more than one lap that is). Your desire to defend your athlete is admirable, but your logic is M.I.A.
“Mark Montgomery’s suggestion for reverse financial incentives is interesting - but will likely be either unaffordable for USAT or totally ineffective.”
unaffordable? i’m not so sure. the USOC gives a $25k bonus for a gold medal. USAT gives one too, tho i’m not sure what it is (it gives bonuses for world cup races, so i’m assuming it also gives bonuses, probably bigger ones, for an olympic gold).
if we fold the USOC bonus into what i’m proposing, we’re already halfway to the goal, or close to it. i suspect we might be able to lay additional cost off on a sponsor.
as to its effectiveness. i don’t think the money alone would do the trick, you’re right. but as a symbol i think it would go a long way toward changing our elite performers’ attitude and approach. if we’re going to ask them to reorder their sense of loyalty, it would help if we put our money where our mouth is.
then there’s the math of it. all you have to do is consider athens. to have 3 out of 4 of those clear of the field americans, and to walk away with only a bronze, speaks to a particular logic that might be compelling. this is what we learned in cycling in the mid 80s. i remember this argument very well. this current situation feels a lot like that one.
Lew- I would be interested in having you elaborate on your statement regarding the notion of “honor” with regard to the decision by Sheila not to sit in on the race leader and instead take pulls at the front*. In your role as a coach, is this concept/tactic something you encourage or discourage. In this regard, to you think it is unethical to sit in on a lead rider as a matter of individual or team strategy.
“In general, however, I can say this is absolutely an issue of honor with her. She feels that, in triathlon, there is inherently an ethical problem with sitting in. I remember back to other races, other World Cups, where Sheila has gone berserk over those who make their way to the front group and then refuse to pull.”
I think it depends on whether this form of racing is a team event or an individual event.
I think that draft-legal racing gives such a clear advantage to those who can form up into teams to draft off of each other, as in team time trials, that this should be considered a team event. I’m not sure that the result, in this case, would have been any different. I couldn’t tell from the coverage whether the winner got a big drafting advantage on the bike, but, WOW, could she ever run. Harrop would likely have won the event if no drafting were allowed. No one seemed to be able to touch her there.
