From your article on the slice;
“The point is, those spacers and upturned stems are function killers. Everything good and functional about your frame—its strength, aerodynamics, light weight—is killed by those upturned and overlong stems, and the spacers and riser kits.”
What do you mean by function besides aero?
The reason why I ask is that I am a person with ridiculously long legs (84cm or so) and a short torso. I ride one of the tallest / narrowest bikes out there (plasma2). But, I am still running spacers and risers because my body will not let me get low enough. I have 15 cm of drop - even with high risers (the dreaded cobra 2+'s), 4 cm of spacers, etc. If I went any lower, it would be difficult to see 40 yards down the road…
I want to know what my trade offs are beside losing an aero advantage. At some point, comfort has to trump aero… or am I thinking about this wrong and just need to HTFU and work on my flexibility?
I will not speak for the man. But…
Take a look at your bike from the front. Note the frontal area created by your spacers, stem, bars, etc.
Now, imagine how much less “stuff” would be there fighting the wind if the stem was horizontal to the ground (-17*), no spacers were there, and the base of your aero bars were even with the front of your base bar.
That can add up to a lot of “stuff” to push through the wind. Remember that this area is the first part of your bike that the wind sees.
I do agree with you that at some point you do have to be comfortable and you do have to be able to produce power. As with most of life, some things have to give.
He’s addressed this elsewhere, but if I have it right, the basic idea is that spacers, upturned stems and so on are lousy aerodynamically, for steering, and are actually heavier than frame at this point.
NOW, if you have some crazy weird geometric needs, then do watcha gotta do. But most people would be well served from finding a frame that fits them without many such modifications.
One other thing: the background to this is that there are a lot of AGers with stupid set ups, but also back in the day, people thought it was best to ride the smallest frame possible. With more aero and lighter frame materials, this doesn’t make sense anymore.
Thanks guys. If aero is the only functional benefit, then I understand I have to deal with what the good lord gave me and just make the best of it.
But, I do need to nail fit and maybe my body type is just way off the charts…
From your article on the slice;
“The point is, those spacers and upturned stems are function killers. Everything good and functional about your frame—its strength, aerodynamics, light weight—is killed by those upturned and overlong stems, and the spacers and riser kits.”
What do you mean by function besides aero?
The reason why I ask is that I am a person with ridiculously long legs (84cm or so) and a short torso. I ride one of the tallest / narrowest bikes out there (plasma2). But, I am still running spacers and risers because my body will not let me get low enough. I have 15 cm of drop - even with high risers (the dreaded cobra 2+'s), 4 cm of spacers, etc. If I went any lower, it would be difficult to see 40 yards down the road…
I want to know what my trade offs are beside losing an aero advantage. At some point, comfort has to trump aero… or am I thinking about this wrong and just need to HTFU and work on my flexibility?
How tall are you? I just am having a hard time doing the math where you run 15cm of drop on a Scott Plasma - in any size - with those bars and 4cm of spacers. It would basically indicate a bike that was simply the wrong size or a saddle that was way too tall or a REALLY strange body type. Generally, i would say that option 1 - wrong size bike - could be it. A tall/narrow bike in the wrong size could mean a lot of spacers.
Flexibility is likely not a limiter. 15cm of drop for someone with your approximate saddle height (based off leg length) is not a lot.
Look at his profile - I figure an 80x-6 stem and ~58mm pad stack. But I’m dubious that anyone can be proportioned at quite that extreme.
Jordan - thanks for responding. I hope the recovery is going well and that you will be racing again soon.
As cyclenutz noted - look at my profile, my fit coordinates are listed there. I have more information at my office and will post it tomorrow.
I am a bit of a freak. I am 6’ 1". Long legs and long forearms. Really short torso. Used to weigh close to 250, now 180. Flexibility is ok.
Bottom line is this:
- First tri bike. I have 500+ miles on it in the last 2 months.
- I feel comfortable and powerful on it - to a point. My neck and upper back start hurting at 1.5 hours, making it tough to keep my head up and eyes on the road. This limits my comfort on longer rides.
- Lots of spacers and front area that I am trying to reduce. In my limited experience, I don’t know how or if to do.
My initial fitting had my stack and reach square in the category of blue, scott, and cannondale.
I think Slowman may have meant that if you have a ton of spacers and upturned stem, it could be that you are on the wrong frame. (for the mythical average person that is)
In your case, as you are already on the closest frame for you body proportions, you are in essence, screwed as there is no better frame choice for you (ignoring custom) and you are just unfortunate that you are outside the curve.
You’ve got the closest frame and have set it up as well as possible so I say just ride the darned thing and worry about stuff you can actually do something about.
Jordan - thanks for responding. I hope the recovery is going well and that you will be racing again soon.
As cyclenutz noted - look at my profile, my fit coordinates are listed there. I have more information at my office and will post it tomorrow.
I am a bit of a freak. I am 6’ 1". Long legs and long forearms. Really short torso. Used to weigh close to 250, now 180. Flexibility is ok.
Bottom line is this:
- First tri bike. I have 500+ miles on it in the last 2 months.
- I feel comfortable and powerful on it - to a point. My neck and upper back start hurting at 1.5 hours, making it tough to keep my head up and eyes on the road. This limits my comfort on longer rides.
- Lots of spacers and front area that I am trying to reduce. In my limited experience, I don’t know how or if to do.
My initial fitting had my stack and reach square in the category of blue, scott, and cannondale.
Based off a quick look, I would say that your saddle height is WAY off. Your saddle height and inseam should never be that close. 84cm of inseam and 83cm of saddle height just screams “your saddle is too tall” to me…
I had to stop and check out what Jordan was telling you, not that I doubted him, but I just wanted to see for myself.
Your profile shows a seat height of 83 cm and you say you have an inseam of 84 cm. What Jordan was eluding to is if you follow one of the “simple” formula’s – seat height = inseam * 0.883 then your seat height should be closer to 74 cm. Not saying that the 74 cm is the “right” measurement, but 9 cm different? Maybe so, but I think that is why Jordan went – HUH?
You may want to read through all of the fit articles that are linked on the home page.