Ok, so after my first xterra race this weekend, I need a new bike. I am sure fit is just as important on mtn bikes as it road bikes, but also technology. So for all the mtn. bike full suspension gurus:
Fully Active Rear Suspention vs. VPP and lockout (Brain) technology…which do you prefer and why?
Bushings vs. Bearings…which is better?
I’m trying to limit what I look at so I find the one that fits me first…but I really like the Ellsworth Truth and Turner Flux. I also rode a Specialized Epic, and it was really comfy.
Unless you’re in a hurry, I’d wait for the '06 lineups. The Epic will be offered in carbon, Cannondale’s new Rush looks very interesting, and if Scott gets their 4" travel bike in country, that will make a serious run at bike of the year in the US (Specialized really doesn’t want to see that bike here) - sorry, I’m assuming you’re in the US.
VPP: Santa Cruz is tough to beat for the price, but the Intense is slightly lighter and way more sexy. Perhaps Giant’s Maestro suspension, but I haven’t ridden that yet. Bushing wear is always an issue with VPP, but probably overstated.
Ok, so after my first xterra race this weekend, I need a new bike. WHY??? Did you break it???
I am sure fit is just as important on mtn bikes as it road bikes, Not really, if all you’re trying to do is hold on down the hill
but also technology. Here it comes …
So for all the mtn. bike full suspension gurus:
Hey, I got cash to dispose of …
Fully Active Rear Suspention vs. VPP and lockout (Brain) technology…which do you prefer and why?
I learned some big words this weekend!!!
Bushings vs. Bearings…which is better?
There’s different ways to make things be bendy!!!
I’m trying to limit what I look at so I find the one that fits me first…but I really like the Ellsworth Truth and Turner Flux. I also rode a Specialized Epic, and it was really comfy.
They had “Dirt Rag” at the bike store. Nice pictures.
Jus’ kiddin’ dude. Welcome to the dirty side.
Hate to say it, but if you’ve only done one race and think you need a new bike, do what I did … trashpick a steel frame, take the stickers off; buy a $75 Wal-Mart bike with SRAM; change up the drivetrain on the beater and stick the new fork in it.
My father has been riding and racing his Blur (vpp) for a little over a year and he considers it the best mountain bike he has ever owned. He looked hard at the Epic and the Maverick (Klein). The Epic just didn’t impress him and he liked the Klein, but chose the Blur because it just felt better to him. He’s a lot smaller than I am so I can’t take the Blur for a spin, unfortunately.
I have a Cannondale Jekyll and I love it. Not too much suspension that you are losing a lot on the climbs and enough boing to make downhilling SO MUCH FUN! I can also lock-out either end if I want, which is sweet on climbs or flat sections for sprinting.
I’ve heard very good things about the Jamis Dakar series.
find a nice fun race-loop someplace, and bring your blingy FS wonderbike of choice to it for a little racin’. also bring a guy on a rigid singlespeed mtn bike . . . a guy maybe around as fit as you, but with lots of experience ridin and racin mtn bikes. now race said guy on said rigid singlespeed. wow ! he kicked yer ass all over the place !!
does this mean rigid singlespeed mtn bikes are faster than blingy modern wonder-bikes ? no. it means that no matter what bike you are on it is insignificant compared to H-O-W you ride it.
get whatever wonder-bike blows yer dress up. shoot, why not the turner? now go chase a racing singlespeeder ( or other guy faster than you) around until you can keep with him. when you get faster it will be the latter, not the former that is the reason why.
The Jekyll is now gone from the Cannondale lineup, but Tinker Juarez, a fanatic about his bikes and their performance, switched to the new Rush from the Scapel almost immediately after his first ride.
I really want to ride the Scott Genius, and hope Scott’s lawsuit against Specialized gets settled soon. My bet, however, is that we won’t see it until '07 because Specialized is really afraid of that frame and is going to stall it’s arrival as long as possible.
raced a FS that last 2 years, but the Xterra courses are so non-technical I switch ed back to hardtail for 2005. Then I moved, wife got pregnant…yada, yada and I don’t race. So the hardtail did me no good!
-My back was killing me on the uphill, I couldn’t get comfortable and kept wanting to stretch out more, but don’t have any bar ends. They are worth a try.
-On the down hills, even with my weight behind the seat, I felt to far forward and really unstable.
-I have a GT i-Drive and don’t like the maintenence issues in the bottom bracket area. The thing is impossible to clean without taking it apart.
-I noticed a crack in the frame where the rear shock mounts to the rear triangle.
-Most of all, its just uncomfortable. After being fit wrong on my tri bike and getting a good fit on it, the difference was huge. But I never would have known and would have just lived with it if I didn’t get a fit. I have that same “uncomfy” feeling on my mtn bike now. Bought it as a “good deal”, instead of something that felt good.
I bought it as a recreational bike, but if I am getting into xterra, lots of upgrades I want to do, like disc brakes, better fork, tubeless tires…the list goes on and on! And I though road bike bling was addicting!
I can definetly see how skills are much more useful in mtn biking. For a road bike, you pretty much go, better fitness, better speed. There were alot of people that I saw this weekend that I though I had better fitness then (based on how they were breathing and how I was) that schooled me on the bike. My skills definetly need some work…but a nice bike never hurts!
Dual suspention is nice, but you might be good buying a hardtail first. With a hardtail you cant pick crappy lines and get away with it as good as u can with a dualie. Id say buy a mid-level hardtail ride it for a couple months sell it on ebay, then get the dual suspention of your choice. Reason being:
a) You can learn alot more about handling your bike over rough terrian.
b) You wont worry about scratching up your nice new Dualie when you should be concentrating on better technique. (You will eat it eventually)
c) You can get a better idea of what kind of bike works better in your area. (and save a little coin if u find that the bike you have is all u need to have fun)
I’ve raced mtn bikes for years, i have excellent handling skills and i can thank my hardtail for that, but the new dual suspentions are very nice and very pedal effecient. 06 specialized epic models have a brain that can be shut off and turned back on when u want. So u can have fully active rear or brain system. Which is pretty much like having a hardtail and a dualie in one. Pretty coooooool.
Get a full suspension bike. It’s true that you don’t need one on most race courses, but you don’t give up anything with them either - and they can impart a large amount of comfort and efficency when the course does get rough. And if you really want practice picking good lines, glue some cyclocross tires on your carbon megabucks aero wheels and take the tri-bike to the local trailhead - you’ll be picking good lines -real- quick.
For suspension types, I think it’s hard to beat a Horst link based bike from a simplicity and efficency standpoint. Not that the other designs are bad - but I imagine you’d see a lot more bikes built around the Horst link had Specialized not started enforcing the patten. It works as well or better than anything out there.
I also don’t think you need anything like the ‘brain’ shock on the Epic on well-designed FS bikes, especially with the new stable platform shocks out today. Some folks like it, though.
Bushings are lighter and Turner makes a compelling argument they are a better fit for task. Bearings should be a bit smoother. I don’t think you’ll notice any difference at all on the trail and wouldn’t make a buying decision based on this factor.
For top XC race oriented bikes, I’d go with the Titus Racer-X or the Turner Flux (or Nitrous, if you’re light and really into racing). The Racer-X is a very quick handling, wonderfully stiff bike, Turner takes a different approach to handling, with a slightly slacker head tube and steeper seat tube - should be a bit more stable downhill. Both are built around Horst links, are beautifully made and built by companies with a history of standing behind their products.
Biased opinion since I raced for this shop for years and am friends with the owner, but check out www.hammerheadbikes.com - they sell a ton Titus and Turners and can tell you more than you ever wanted to know about full suspension bikes.
find a nice fun race-loop someplace, and bring your blingy FS wonderbike of choice to it for a little racin’. also bring a guy on a rigid singlespeed mtn bike . . . a guy maybe around as fit as you, but with lots of experience ridin and racin mtn bikes. now race said guy on said rigid singlespeed. wow ! he kicked yer ass all over the place !!
does this mean rigid singlespeed mtn bikes are faster than blingy modern wonder-bikes ? no. it means that no matter what bike you are on it is insignificant compared to H-O-W you ride it.
get whatever wonder-bike blows yer dress up. shoot, why not the turner? now go chase a racing singlespeeder ( or other guy faster than you) around until you can keep with him. when you get faster it will be the latter, not the former that is the reason why.
OK… lets say you have lots of experience ridin and racing mtn bikes… find a nice fun technical race-loop someplace, and bring your blingy FS wonderbike of choice to it for a little racin’. also bring a guy on a rigid singlespeed mtn bike . . . a guy as fit as you and as experienced ridin and racin mtn bikes. now race said guy on said rigid singlespeed. wow ! You kicked his ass all over the place !!
does this mean blingy modern wonder-bikes are faster than rigid singlespeed mtn bikes on anything but fast non-technical courses? yes
Unless you’re in a hurry, I’d wait for the '06 lineups. The Epic will be offered in carbon, Cannondale’s new Rush looks very interesting, and if Scott gets their 4" travel bike in country, that will make a serious run at bike of the year in the US (Specialized really doesn’t want to see that bike here) - sorry, I’m assuming you’re in the US.
VPP: Santa Cruz is tough to beat for the price, but the Intense is slightly lighter and way more sexy. Perhaps Giant’s Maestro suspension, but I haven’t ridden that yet. Bushing wear is always an issue with VPP, but probably overstated.
And I second what JM says…
bushings are only bad when they were the cheap ones that specialized and other companies used to use. I used to own a Turner 5-spot and the bushings with grease fittings ran circles around sealed bearings I had on a Racer_X.
I think for racing X-terra suspension is good as you are going to have more energy to run because the bike did the work for you. Of all the high end bikes I had the Turner was head and shoulders above the rest.
These days I ride a fully rigid steel singlespeed because I dont race and for some masochistic reason I want to make mountain biking as painfull and difficult as possible… But I wouldnt race it in an X-terra because I know it would be slower.