Last week or the week before there was a thread about getting out of bed in the morning. Now, I have as much trouble as anyone getting motivated early in the morning, but my bigger problem is getting to bed at night. My biggest training goal this year is to get more sleep. Trouble is, I can’t get to sleep before 11:00 or 12:00. I’ve used Melatonin, and more recently, over-the-counter sleep aids. These help, but not very much. Also, is artificially induced sleep as good as natural sleep for recovery? It seems with the sleep aids, I have non-stop REM sleep, which is pretty entertaining and I feel pretty rested in the morning. I know it’s recommended that you don’t exercise too late in the evening if you’re having trouble getting to sleep, but seriously, how many of us can avoid that while working full time and doing two-a-day training sessions? Any tips?
See your general practitioner for prescription sleep aids. Not every night, but maybe once a week or whenever you seem to fall behind and definitely need one good night. Everybody has different tolerences and will get different results with Ambien, Lunesta, Zyprexa, etc.
Do you drink much caffeine? If so, slowly dial back the clock taking your last coffee or cola a little earlier each day. For me, 3PM is about alll I can do. OTC sleep aids usually make you feel worse in the morning, almost like a hangover.
Do you drink much caffeine? If so, slowly dial back the clock taking your last coffee or cola a little earlier each day. For me, 3PM is about alll I can do. OTC sleep aids usually make you feel worse in the morning, almost like a hangover.
he is right, no matter how long you sleep your next morning will be like sh!t. I have tried the Rx sleeping aids (Ambien I think???) they worked the first week but after a week of use my body adapted and they didn’t do any good. usually with sleeping aids there is a 30 minute window that they kick in, if you sleep in that period you are good otherwise no good.
My doctor prescribed mirtazipine. I have to cut it up into tiny little pieces becaues I don’t need much to make a significant difference. It’s not habit forming, in the sense that if you don’t use it you can’t sleep, but, according to the doc, the more you take it, the more it loses its effectiveness, requiring larger doses.
Therefore I use it maybe 2-3 times a week, usually an eighth of a tablet or less per night.
After a HIM last year I took a whole tablet and was out for ten hours.
I’ve read on this board about other people using it as an anti-depressant (which it is), having results less satisfactory than my own.
It works for me without any negative effects.
By the way, I just read an AP report today that if you get 8 hours of sleep each night you are three times less likely to get sick this winter than those getting seven hours or less.
See your general practitioner for prescription sleep aids. Not every night, but maybe once a week or whenever you seem to fall behind and definitely need one good night. Everybody has different tolerences and will get different results with Ambien, Lunesta, Zyprexa, etc.
I ain’t no doctor, but Zyprexa as a sleep aid? Bi-polar and schizophrenia yes. But, I wouldn’t be touching that stuff as a sleep aid. And, what about the price? That would be quite an expensive choice.
Three days to go to aan iron-distance race and not sleeping well. I reckon the dea is not to worry a bout it and get out of bed at regular times each day. Also train regularly and train even when you feel sleepy. You will be surprised how training can reinvigorate you.
I have a good reason why i am not sleeping this week and feeling hammered though. Have just switched shifts for one week. Was finishing work at 2.30am last week and this week am starting at 5.30am. Well hopefully i will be right in 3 days time.
I would say you just need to harden up and stop worrying. Drugs would be a desperate last resort. Work harder and train harder is my solution. Some people i am seeing are working 2 physical jobs a day so are only sleeping a few hours. And they are fine; they are also tougher than most and it is incredible to see. These guys are shearing sheep 7 days a week for 5-8 hours a day then working in a freezing works for 9 hours(4 nights). Sounds like bst, but i have seen them at both places in the same day. They only work like that for 4 months of the year.
Stop worrying about nothing and put the hammer down in your training. It is working for me. Get on your bike and go hard!!!
I used to train for 1-2 hours after doing 9hours of work but nothing like these guys.
well since there have been some pretty dumb answers on this thread i’ll chime in with some sense.
Is artificially induced sleep as good as natural sleep you asked. If it doesn’t mess up your sleep architecture then yes it is. If it messed that up then no it’s not.
Can’t fall alseep before a certain time, then you need to slowly adjust your body’s clock. Get up at the same time every day no matter what. Start going to bed 10 min earlier every 3-5th night.
If you are doing stuff then re-organize life so you can start winding down earlier so you can be relaxed when going to bed.
Define late in the evening for exercise. If you are finishing at 10:30 trying to go to bed at 11 then yeah your exercising too late. If you are finishing at 7-8pm then going to bed at that time then you will probably be ok. Steady state workouts seem to be less impactful then interval workouts late in the evening on allowing one to fall asleep normally.
OTC sleep aids tend to not be great, some can cause rebound insomnia some are proven to be rather ineffective. I believe the research on melatonin supplements is swinging towards that end or at least the umm maybe we should investigate this a bit more before coming out with a recommendation since the recent research is better designed and not as conclusive as the older research.
Sometime I HAVE to take a strong sleeping aid and let me tell you, its hell to try to get off bed the next day. You should avoid naps and cafeine after 5pm.
I’m not saying that it’s not hard the next morning. If you are having next day impairment from your sleeping aid you 1. need to switch 2. need to try a different combo of drugs to get to sleep 3. see a sleep specialist
Naps are fine, you need to figure out how much napping is to much. Avoiding caffeine in the evening is just wise, especially if you are an insomniac. Those things I wasn’t debating, there were a few answers that were based upon old science or limited observation/personal experience, not what current science/medical literature says about the science of sleep and how to sleep better.
I’m not saying that it’s not hard the next morning. If you are having next day impairment from your sleeping aid you 1. need to switch 2. need to try a different combo of drugs to get to sleep…
I have struggled for years as well. I’m still trying to figure it out. Nothing works every time for me but Ambien, and I’m trying to keep that to 1 or 2X a week. I tend to take it when I really have to get up early, so I take it early so I fall early. It give me a solid 7-8 hours. The problem the next night sometimes is rebound insomnia the next night so I am not sure if its worth it. When its all said and done I average 6.5 hours most weeks, so its not a big deal. I would love to average more, but rarely do. At the same time I never sleep crumby more than 2 days a week or 2 days in a row (crumby is 5 hours), so its not a huge issue.
I think pills and decent sleep are better than very little sleep. Getting up early on a consistent basis helps, too. A routine is important. High volume training does not help sleep for me: I sleep better when I exercise moderately.
Along with all my other medical problems, I am an insomniac. I seriously have more bad shit happen to me than should be allowed and my friends wonder why I am agnostic.
#1- See a sleep specialist. If he/she puts you on a sleep aid then try it and see how your body responds. Klonipin works great for me. Mirtazipine makes me a wobbly booted zombie. Ambien makes me hallucinate and do crazy shit in the middle of the night that I have no recollection of. Lunesta also works well for me and I don’t get the Butterfly shitting in my mouth taste in the morning, but my doctor has me on the Klonipin for now. Depending on how messed up your sleep is, it may take some trial and error and work to get it back right.
#2 - Sleep hygeine is a huge part of the equation.
#3 - If you start getting a good nights sleep. I mean long uninterrupted sleep each night it will do more than you could believe for training and recovery.
Agree with DD on this. He’s using the not-so-common sense.
I had problems with sleep for a chunk of time. Finally went to see my Dr.
He prescribed:
Go to bed at the same time every night
Get up the same time every morning
Make it so you can’t see your clock at night (so you’re not waking up going: 2:00? Then 2:05? Then …)
Don’t drink an hour before you go to bed
and finally
Ambien for 14 days to help reset those patterns
I was getting crappy sleep, and after a week or two it was much better.
if you really have insomnia, then see a medical person. If you have bad habits, you still might
need to see a Dr to help you reset, but using sleep aids all the time probably isn’t the solution.
On a related note, I read the warning labels on ambien. They pretty much said:
“Please make sure you’re at your bed when you take this. If you can already be lying down that
would be even better.”
For me it still took an hour to go to sleep. Now, without any medications I’m able to get to sleep
normally in 10-15 minutes.
well since there have been some pretty dumb answers on this thread i’ll chime in with some sense.
And I thought you were going to say something useful after that…
What you really need is a pair of east european twin sisters, a jar of taramasalata, a bucket of ice, some rubber gloves, 3 feet of pvc tubing and a copy of face value by phil collins on the stereo. Then you’ll sleep like a baby.
when I need to go to sleep I take ambien. If I dont’ take it even if I’m tired and have to get up early, I tend to stress about falling asleep or stress about sleeping through my alarm so I never get more than 5 hours of sleep. If I take an ambien and can get 8 hours of sleep I feel better than if I didn’t take an ambien and got 10 hours of sleep.
If left to my own devices I would naturally sleep 9 1/2-10 hours a night and when I wake up I’m groggy and it takes me a while to really wake up. 11-9AM. If I take an ambien (actually I only take 1/4 of the pill), I’m out in 30 minutes and usually wake up 8 hours later (no alarms) feeling great, no groggy/tired feeling.