Inquiring whether folks sit up (not stand up) or stay in there aerobars in decent extended climbs during a race. I have put maybe 200 miles on my P2K and have done some climbing with it, but I feel better if I am sitting up. In the aero position I do not have near the power.
I sit in a forward postition (not sure of the effective angle), I was fitted by a FIST ceritified shop and sit very low. I spend most of my training time on my road bike (72*) and my commuter bike (74*).
Sit up!
Watch the Tour. Do the climbers hunker down in the drops (like on a breakaway) when they climb? NO! They sit up*.
Our joint angles work most effectively the closer we are to upright. The only reason we normally ride bikes with our torsos dropped is the headwind. In a headwind scenario, power and wind resistance involve a tradeoff of benefits.
Take away the wind resistance, and you’ll go fastest if you put out the most power by keeping the thigh-torso angle open. The muscles work better, the iliac artery works better, the diaphram works better, …etc. I’ve tested myself with a power meter, and ridden with a buddy that swore he climbed faster in the aerobars. He doesn’t, and I proved it for him.
I sit up until I hit about 14 mph, and then get back in the aerobars.
*Yes, there are very rare exceptions, but those guys are weirdos.
It really depends on what kind of hill you are climbing. Also depends on the length of the race you are doing.
If it’s a long, not terribly steep hill (something you can do, say, over 19 mph) then you would probably do better staying aero.
A long steep hill would warrant sitting up. The aero benefit becomes way less the slower you are going. Most people also generate more power sitting up as well.
If the hill is short and steep you should probably still sit up. Standing is ok on these as it can give you a chance to stretch out.
I tend to agree with Julian, but if you read Slowman’s advice elsewhere on this website, he suggests staying in the areobars and spinning and keeping the load spread between quads, hamstrings, hip flexors if you are riding steep (>78). I’m set up in a 77 degree angle, but when I climb, I slide back ~3-4 cm on me seat, sit up and climb at ~73 degrees like a roadie would.
My brain is not working much today, that is what I thought I had heard (part of the reason for the post). At WF I will probably be sitting up, but the thought of being able to save more for the run sounds better. Hmmm.
I tend to agree with Julian, but if you read Slowman’s advice elsewhere on this website, he suggests staying in the areobars and spinning and keeping the load spread between quads, hamstrings, hip flexors if you are riding steep (>78).
I agree with Dan on lots of things about bikes, but I’ve never thought it made a lick of sense to ride slowly in the aerobars. And – the “work load” is spread around those muscles whether you’re sitting up or bent over. What matters is that they fire quickly and powerfully, and at a point in the range of motion where they develop the most power for a given degree of activation. That is determined by joint angles (and training), and less flexed is usually better than more flexed.
Do squats: At what point during the squat does the weight feel “lightest”? At the bottom when your legs are deeply flexed, or at the top when they are nearly extended? If you had to move a great weight a short distance in a short time, would you rather do the lift by (1) squating down deeply and lifting the weight the first 2"; or (2) or squating down a tiny bit from vertical and lifting the weight the final 2" ?
If you’re a normal human being, even one trained to pedal while bent over, #2 is the obvious choice. Open lower body joint angles are more efficient and more powerful, ceteris paribus.
At WTH, I saw a few of the pros heading up the long Mosquito Ridge climb on the aerobars. But they (incl. Tim Deboom) were on road bikes in more upright positions. And, it was a grade that the top guys were probably riding at 15 mph or more. At 15 mph, I get into the aero bars too. I did that section at a fairly constant 11 mph, and was happy to stay sitting up.
I can climb hills pretty quickly while remaining in my aero bars. I choke up on the aero bars and slide back in my seat and spin. I pull quite a bit with my arms and even my torso will feel it after a long climb. I’m not sure if I’d be faster doing it differently but I am usually passing people on the uphills so I’m not going to change. If the hill is really steep or long I may stand up from time to time but I NEVER climb sitting up; no where to brace your body and PULL. Good luck!
… but I NEVER climb sitting up; no where to brace your body and PULL. Good luck!
You would still be holding onto your bars. Depending on your aerobar setup, I hold onto my elbow pads. Some have aerobars that fold up, therefore you could hold onto the bars in a normal climbing position (like on a roadbike).
Yes, when I am ‘climbing’ Mosquito Ridge (in training) I am usually on my hoods (never done it on the tri bike). It is only a 4.5% grade, so it is really just a long roller.
I’m with Julian on this one…at about 15 mph, wind resistance is negligible, and I can pull up with my knees better when sitting more upright…I think that pulling up distributes more workload among the muscles than spinning. I used to pull with my arms (and therefore back) when climbing…I don’t do that much any more, unless it’s REAL steep. I find I actually pull with my arms more when in my aero position…probably because I’m not pulling up with my legs as much when in the aero position. Either way, when you push down so hard that you begin to unseat yourself, you have to counter that force somehow, either by pulling up with the opposite legs, or finding an effective anchor point on the bike.
I ride best at lower cadences…if you are a fast cadence person, staying in your aero bars may be better. Just get a stopwatch and time the two techniques…how it Feels can fool you. Power meter users can just go by their average power output. I actually sit up at about 17 mph in real life, unless there is a wind. It’s easier for me to breathe deeply sitting up, too.
I distinctly recall Slowman passing me last year on the steepest part of Nasty Grade at Wildflower on his red Yaqui not only in the aerobars but butt off the saddle and pumping up the hill. I have tried that several times and still can’t quite do it. Having said that I generally stay in the aerobars as long as possible but will likely move to pursuit bars during the steepest part of Nasty. If for no other reason to give the crotch a break and provide an opportunity to eat.
I try and stay aero as much as possible. IMNZ this year I stayed on the aerobars for all of the “climbs” on the course and rode away from a lot of other cyclsits, especially on the way back to Taupo on the second lap.
In training I find I ride away from buddies when going over climbs if I stay aero and they do not, I seem to generate good power in the aero position.
Its probably a good way to manage your pace as opposed to sitting up when it is easier to hammer it a bit…
I stay in the aerobars unless I’m standing. I just feel more comfortable and more powerful tugging on my aerobars. Not a wind resistance thing at all for me.
I tend to sit in my aero bars when i climb as well. Its not about being aero, its where I am most comfortable on my tri bike. When climbing really steep stuff some times I slide forward on the saddle and am pratically standing on pedals. When I climb on my road bike, I ride on the hoods still. But then again, I’m slow so take it for what its worth.
If you were fitted by a FIST specialist then you should have the correct positioning i.e. body angles that will allow you to climb effectively in the aero position. When I was first fitted at FIST I was very skeptical about climbing in the aero position. We went out for a ride in the hills around the ranch and I was shocked about how effective the position was. I keep my cadence high and use the gears to maintain roughly 80rpms. As the climb gets steeper, I adjust my position by standing up for a few seconds then fall back into the aero bars. They are the most comfortable position on my bike. I ride a 61cm P3 with roughly a 79degree seat tube angle. I am about 195 lbs.
I try to stay on the aero bars and spin. It feels faster on a tri geometry than sitting up although I don’t know if it really is. Neither way is as fast going up hills as my road bike.
Bottom line - slack geometry is better for hill climbing.
I ride my p2k at 80* seat angle and spin like crazy. If possible, I would spin hills at over 105 cadence. Given the seat angle and cadence, I am positive that staying in the aerobars is the best thing to do.
If you don’t meet both of those criteria, then I don’t know. Commonly on a steep hill if I can’t keep up the high cadence, then I’ll sit up since I’m going 9mph anyway with a cadence of 70.