I completely support his effort - it is amazing.
But, what is with the pool swims - he did flip turns and stuff?
All the ultras I did had pool swims except Huntsville (Tennessee River) and the first year (1991) of the race in Hungary (Lake Velence). (Edit: Oops, forgot Lake Anna.) One race director told me it had to do with control of water temperature; in addition, I assume it also made it easier to check that all the athletes were OK (and it saved on kayaks).
This may go into the thinking of some. When setting a record, there is usually a governing body that sets some rules. Guinness often officiates such records. Here he set his own rules! I understand this was not to set a record…or was it?
We like official rules, agreed upon by at least some. Congrats to IronCowboy for an incredible feat! But I certainly never considered it something for which I would give my money.
… (And really, anyone who brands himself the “Iron Cowboy” and then claims he’s not trying to associate with “Ironman” is dubious at best…) ….
Something I haven’t seen within this forum…
On Day 50 or 51 (can’t remember what day), he shaved and got rid of his cowboy hat and said he’s finished with ‘Iron Cowboy’ and wanted to be known as ‘James’. He made many references to the being ‘James’ the person afterwards and although others still called him ‘iron cowboy’, he didn’t. I think he’s maybe moved on from that persona that drove him the earlier part of his career as a triathlete.
As someone who races at the front of his age group in full distance Ironman races, I think this was cute. If you have ever tried the 4-4-48 challenge (or others), you can appreciate how soul sucking this would have been day in and day out for 101 days. The physical accomplishment impresses me much less than the mental accomplishment.
The only beef I have is the IV’s. That being said, I bet the IV’s didn’t make that big of a difference in him finishing.
Time to move on.
Would “iron distance triathlon†work?
Gripes:
But of course the real gripe is not that his rules are different from the rules of triathlon, much less Ironman, but that blurring the lines and wildly overreacting to Ironman’s letter James is creating confusion and controversy where none are necessary. Being a good marketer he is probably doing it on purpose.
Macca is doing a similar thing with the sub-7 sub-8 talking about the attempt to do “the fastest Ironman ever†under 7 or 8 hours, respectively, and “break the recordâ€.
thank you. i appreciate that. this is exactly what i asked for. i would however ask this gentle question, in the spirit of elucidation, and while respecting all opinions on this: what makes what he did against the “rule of triathlon?”
Getting on point: What is the ‘rule of triathlon’?
What constitutes a ‘Triathlon’? Swim/Bike/Run? Any combination thereof? Any sort of ‘swimming’, ‘biking’, ‘running’?
Standing up in a shallow pool every 100m for a break?
Riding in a gruppetto on pancake flat roads and having hand-offs and receiving care?
Not really having a run or general cutoff or any other limiters on how one covers the distance as long as it is ‘by foot’?
Not really caring about any of the WADA code competitive rules at all?
If those are not relevant in a ‘Triathlon’, then for sure he did 100 of them.
I’d like to think that these are not Triathlons (as I understand them as a competition or a race).
But I am a biased SOB, because I do some form of that kind of ‘triathlon’ nearly every day (bike 3 miles to the pool, swim 1 mile, bike back, then power walk 2 miles to the grocery store, or walk the dogs).
I do not consider those activities strung together to be ‘Triathlons’.
.
Maybe I should, because I do bike or walk significant distances that an average American may consider exercising. Oh wait, gasp, am I actually ‘training’?
.
so that i know, can someone help me out with a full list of the legitimate gripes about james lawrence’s initiative here? meaning, whether you agree with the nature of the gripe or not, what is the entire list of problems that folks have with him, other than silly frivolous stuff. i guess i’ll start with:
and then there are 3, 4, 5 and so on. can someone help me with the list?
A legitimate gripe? First and foremost the charity partner he chose is under criminal investigation: https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/anti-human-trafficking-group-operation-underground-railroad-under-investigation-by-utah-prosecutor
This is my predominant gripe…and if we discuss this further in detail then it we’re entering into LR territory.
In terms of Ironman protecting their brand in this particular case? Given the links above and the negative associations that some people may infer from his “relationships†I have zero issues with that.
ETA: the comments in the WAPO article are interesting.
Maurice
Would “iron distance triathlon†work?
Gripes:
But of course the real gripe is not that his rules are different from the rules of triathlon, much less Ironman, but that blurring the lines and wildly overreacting to Ironman’s letter James is creating confusion and controversy where none are necessary. Being a good marketer he is probably doing it on purpose.
Macca is doing a similar thing with the sub-7 sub-8 talking about the attempt to do “the fastest Ironman ever†under 7 or 8 hours, respectively, and “break the recordâ€.
thank you. i appreciate that. this is exactly what i asked for. i would however ask this gentle question, in the spirit of elucidation, and while respecting all opinions on this: what makes what he did against the “rule of triathlon?”
Getting on point: What is the ‘rule of triathlon’?
What constitutes a ‘Triathlon’? Swim/Bike/Run? Any combination thereof? Any sort of ‘swimming’, ‘biking’, ‘running’?
Standing up in a shallow pool every 100m for a break?
Riding in a gruppetto on pancake flat roads and having hand-offs and receiving care?
Not really having a run or general cutoff or any other limiters on how one covers the distance as long as it is ‘by foot’?
Not really caring about any of the WADA code competitive rules at all?
If those are not relevant in a ‘Triathlon’, then for sure he did 100 of them.
I’d like to think that these are not Triathlons (as I understand them as a competition or a race).
But I am a biased SOB, because I do some form of that kind of ‘triathlon’ nearly every day (powerwalking 2 miles to the grocery store, or walk the dogs, then bike 3 miles to the pool, swim a mile, bike back).
I do not consider those activities strung together to be ‘Triathlons’.
.
Maybe I should, because I do bike or walk significant distances that an average American may consider exercising. Oh wait, gasp, am I actually ‘training’?
.
i guess that’s the difference between us. to me, the “rules” of triathlon are that you must make forward progress on foot, on a bike, and in the water. and, maybe on nordic skis (depending on the event). beyond that, if you make up your own event then you get to decide what the “rules” are.
the only other rule is you may be a douche if you harsh on somebody else’s expression of multisport, laying your trip on him (or her).
Title should be changed to:
Man exercises by swim, bike, run for roughly 140miles, give or take, for 100 days in a row.
Would “iron distance triathlon†work?
Gripes:
But of course the real gripe is not that his rules are different from the rules of triathlon, much less Ironman, but that blurring the lines and wildly overreacting to Ironman’s letter James is creating confusion and controversy where none are necessary. Being a good marketer he is probably doing it on purpose.
Macca is doing a similar thing with the sub-7 sub-8 talking about the attempt to do “the fastest Ironman ever†under 7 or 8 hours, respectively, and “break the recordâ€.
thank you. i appreciate that. this is exactly what i asked for. i would however ask this gentle question, in the spirit of elucidation, and while respecting all opinions on this: what makes what he did against the “rule of triathlon?”
Getting on point: What is the ‘rule of triathlon’?
What constitutes a ‘Triathlon’? Swim/Bike/Run? Any combination thereof? Any sort of ‘swimming’, ‘biking’, ‘running’?
Standing up in a shallow pool every 100m for a break?
Riding in a gruppetto on pancake flat roads and having hand-offs and receiving care?
Not really having a run or general cutoff or any other limiters on how one covers the distance as long as it is ‘by foot’?
Not really caring about any of the WADA code competitive rules at all?
If those are not relevant in a ‘Triathlon’, then for sure he did 100 of them.
I’d like to think that these are not Triathlons (as I understand them as a competition or a race).
But I am a biased SOB, because I do some form of that kind of ‘triathlon’ nearly every day (powerwalking 2 miles to the grocery store, or walk the dogs, then bike 3 miles to the pool, swim a mile, bike back).
I do not consider those activities strung together to be ‘Triathlons’.
.
Maybe I should, because I do bike or walk significant distances that an average American may consider exercising. Oh wait, gasp, am I actually ‘training’?
.
i guess that’s the difference between us. to me, the “rules” of triathlon are that you must make forward progress on foot, on a bike, and in the water. and, maybe on nordic skis (depending on the event). beyond that, if you make up your own event then you get to decide what the “rules” are.
the only other rule is you may be a douche if you harsh on somebody else’s expression of multisport, laying your trip on him (or her).
Sure, being judgemental about other peoples interpretation or understanding of ‘multisport’ would in fact be quite deplorable.
.
You asked for a list of gripes, so I’m going to open myself to a mass of criticism by adding to it. Excuse me a minute while I don my full-body flame-proof PPE.
OK here goes.
It was a disappointingly shit performance.
More accurately, it was a sub-standard athletic performance that will be duplicitously marketed as a “world record” that pushes the bounds of human endurance and endeavour.
Sure, it may have been near the best the James could do, and he (perhaps wisely) played it safely and conservatively to reach his personal goal, and yes, no one has even attempted this before, however let’s be honest and give this some perspective. When a guy who trains by running one or two days a week cracks so badly that he’s walking every marathon after Day 3 or 4, this is hardly any cutting edge performance we’re watching.
Solo endurance endeavours range in credibility from truly impressive performances by well-credentialed athletes (eg Jurek and Sabbe on the Appalachian and Pacific Crest Trails), to dodgy charlatans making ludicrous claims who’d struggle with a BOP finish should they line up in a real race.
James falls somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. A solid athlete with multiple and frequent MOP finishes in shorter triathlons, but has always shied away from any racing over long distances.
He prefers to be the star of his one-man show with it’s own script. That is essential for his marketing of his image. If he stepped onto the stage at any ultra tri or ultra marathon, he’d be a minor player sharing the limelight with the those more talented than he. And that wouldn’t do.
I have no doubts of the adversity James endured to accomplish what he has. His discomfort, fatigue and pain would have felt relentless. Dark patches would have been deep and familiar. Kudos to him for accomplishing what he has.
But let’s have some perspective, this “record” is about as soft as it could be.
I think that people are protective of their own achievements, and dislike the comparison that gets made when what Iron Cowboy has done gets compared to a “real” triathlon. It is easy to criticize what he has done, but when you look at the criticisms, they fall pretty flat when compared to the scale of time/distance he has done. He hasn’t done a real triathlon because he took IVs, he drafted, wore a wetsuit, etc. Yeah, well the dude swam 2.4 miles every day, rode a bike in a group every day in almost every weather condition 112 miles, and then walked a marathon for 100 days straight.
I can understand the complaints about the charity he is supporting having read a little more about them. If he had chosen something that was more widely known/accepted, his accomplishments would be harder to question. I think also if he had been more clear about how much was going to charity/etc, that would have silenced the critics as well.
Dan, there of course isn’t a formal set of “rules of triathlonâ€, but every organized event has some. And it just so happens that you see those commonalities: no bike drafting in events longer than Olympic distance, references to the rule book of World Triathlon, USAT or other (World Triathlon-compliant) national federations - and if not, then references to WTC rules, references to WADA governance, etc.
IUTA, I understand, has different rules, with a more liberal approach to race support, but probably that’s where it ends, mostly? I don’t know much about ultra. I recall people in the IC thread mentioning daily time limits in races where you start the iron distance every morning.
So this is a completely different set of rules James has set for himself, fine, great, just doesn’t play well with the 100 Ironmans or record-setting rhetoric.
so that i know, can someone help me out with a full list of the legitimate gripes about james lawrence’s initiative here? meaning, whether you agree with the nature of the gripe or not, what is the entire list of problems that folks have with him, other than silly frivolous stuff. i guess i’ll start with:
and then there are 3, 4, 5 and so on. can someone help me with the list?
I think his accomplishment should be highly commended and any story should be highlighting the extreme mental and physical toll on his body and how he did it. Why not use him as an ally and help grow the sport, versus point out warts that are often part of many competitors triathlons?
Triathlons have draft legal racing, and many ironmans within the mop and bop have huge packs, so that seems silly to focus on as a gripe. Also, for many years, not sure if they still have now, IVs were utilized by competitors post race in the medical tent like participation medals, so that as well seems contradictory to what many athletes have used after competing just a single race. Swimming in a pool? Come on, that’s completely fine for many triathlons I’ve done over the years. There is probably no athlete on this board that has done his volume of exercise in 15 days that he did, let alone 100 days.
Just my 2 cents.
why there are any naysayers for his massive accomplishment is beyond me. really, who cares if he didnt 100% stick to what a full course ironman race is. who cares he drafted on the bike. who cares if he swam in a pool. who cares that he power walked the marathon (i personally would have liked to see him jog it, but that probably would have wound up killing him so meh). he did all of that 101 times. thats 101 more times than i have in my life, and probably many many more than anyone here will do in their collective days as age group ironman athletes. he also did this and helped raise money for a charitable cause.
this dude did something no one has done, and im willing to be no one will ever do again.
The original version stated that IC was going to do “100 Ironman Triathlons in 100 Days.” No reference to the word distance at all.
He received a request to stop talking about what he was doing as IMs about midway through the challenge: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=308941070602108&set=a.206929584136591
That’s the initial source of issue: equating his self-made adventure with an IM. IM’s have specific rules that James didn’t follow: pool swims; drafting on bikes; IVs for recovery; exceeding 17 hour cutoffs. Not for nothing, but how many people who follow James know that IVs are prohibited under the WADA Code with strict exceptions?
This isn’t to say what he did wasn’t a feat of endurance. It is. I don’t find it particularly note or newsworthy, though. There’s questions about the charity he was fundraising for, too: under investigation for fraud. And I’m curious as to of that $250K, how much did James profit from?
why there are any naysayers for his massive accomplishment is beyond me. really, who cares if he didnt 100% stick to what a full course ironman race is. who cares he drafted on the bike. who cares if he swam in a pool. who cares that he power walked the marathon (i personally would have liked to see him jog it, but that probably would have wound up killing him so meh). he did all of that 101 times. thats 101 more times than i have in my life, and probably many many more than anyone here will do in their collective days as age group ironman athletes. he also did this and helped raise money for a charitable cause.
this dude did something no one has done, and im willing to be no one will ever do again.
OK, just a general reply to this thread. Right from the get go, I thought this was a huge physical and mental challenge and I was wondering how he would get done in time daily to hav enough recovery time to get tomorrow’s start line and not unravel within days. And he started on a path that I thought he was in a potential death spiral and then he made his own repeatable system and get to the start line daily like a metronome.
I found it quite exciting seeing what he was pulling off daily but it seems everytime I posted in support of the physical and mental achievements, there were long numbers of negative posts about him. After a while you think this entire place is thinking the way of the negative guys and you are the only lunatic impressed by a guy who can do a draft legal wetsuit 2.4mile swim, do a draft legal 112 miles, then do a 26.2 hike-jog, then get on the path to prep for the next day.
The Washington Post actually gave it a pretty fair shake - highlighting some of the external peculiarities with James and his whole endeavor:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...triathlons-100-days/
Billing himself as the “Iron Cowboy,†Lawrence aims to conquer 100 full-distance triathlons in 100 days. Set to finish Tuesday, he has said he wants to push the limits of human endurance while raising funds for an organization that claims to fight human trafficking.
His plan is simple, if maniacal: He hits the local pool at 5:30 a.m. and swims for about 90 minutes. Then he hops on his bike for a loop around Lindon that takes five or six hours. Then, after a break, he starts his daily marathon, which normally takes around seven hours. It all adds up to about 15 hours of daily exercise, which supporters can, and do, follow online or even in person.
But controversy has trailed him, too. Ironman, the corporation that owns the majority of triathlon events worldwide, has urged Lawrence not to use its brand name. Some triathletes have** **criticized his use of IV injections to stay hydrated, because a dose of more than 100 milliliters in a 12-hour period would be prohibited in a World Anti-Doping Agency signatory event. (WADA, which has no jurisdiction over Lawrence’ddees event, declined to comment.)
Very good article, feels like address all the problems and virtudes without having a take on the project! they even quote Taren!
so that i know, can someone help me out with a full list of the legitimate gripes about james lawrence’s initiative here? meaning, whether you agree with the nature of the gripe or not, what is the entire list of problems that folks have with him, other than silly frivolous stuff. i guess i’ll start with:
and then there are 3, 4, 5 and so on. can someone help me with the list?
I am extremely impressed with James Lawrence and what he has accomplished. I followed him for all “101” days, and looked forward to seeing how he was progressing along his journey. My hope is that he filled that void and climbed his Everest in a manner that gives him the peace that he might’ve been missing without doing this adventure.
With that said… my biggest challenge with him and this adventure relates to my compare / contrast with Terry Fox.
James is about my age and was also from Canada.
Both of us were inspired by Terry Fox (I know this because I personally asked him via message on IG and received a response from his wife and daughter).
Terry Fox did the “Marathon of Hope” and raised millions of dollars for his cause. The money keeps pouring in as a result of that adventure in 1980 (to date, over $800MM raised!!). It was obvious that Terry Fox was doing it for others, not himself.
Although inspired by Terry Fox, I feel as if James is driven by his ego and is short lived without it being legacy driven for his cause. That bugs me when I see him as I strongly feel he’s driven from his ego as opposed to the greater cause.
ETA: In my opinion, if channelled differently, his skills and determination and belief that “anything is possible if you try” could be used for a greater good.
Note: Canada was blessed by Terry Fox and Rick Hanson as they helped ‘our’ generation believe that impossible things are possible. I admire that James was inspired by those 2 great icons in Canadian history.
So Sir Edmund Hillary’s summit of Everest would be a “shit performance” too? IC and SEH climbed previously unclimbed mountains, in a manner of speaking. Is 100/100 a mountain in need of summiting? Maybe not. But it had never been done before which makes the ‘performance’ of it rather irrelevant to the feat of it. Hundreds have climbed Everest faster than Hillary but no one did it before him.
The ‘record’ of IC’s accomplishment isn’t found in the speed or manner of it. It’s a ‘record’ of unprecedented-ness (if that’s a word).
So Sir Edmund Hillary’s summit of Everest would be a “shit performance” too? IC and SEH climbed previously unclimbed mountains, in a manner of speaking. Is 100/100 a mountain in need of summiting? Maybe not. But it had never been done before which makes the ‘performance’ of it rather irrelevant to the feat of it. Hundreds have climbed Everest faster than Hillary but no one did it before him.
The ‘record’ of IC’s accomplishment isn’t found in the speed or manner of it. It’s a ‘record’ of unprecedented-ness (if that’s a word).
Haha…Sir Edmund drafted Tenzing all the way up and used bottled Oxygen