Does anyone have their tri model, the CXII? I saw one in my LBS yesterday and have to say that it was beautiful. Did you have it custom built in a steep geometry? I feel silly for asking this question since they make some of the nicest road bikes available, but would you trust an ultimate high end road bike maker like Serotta to build a steep geometry tri bike? I mean it is not like that is their focus or core business( Tri geometry that is ), do you think that the bike would be designed from the ground up as steep or perhaps would there be some compromises in the design? This is not a knock on Serotta at all, I would love to have that bike if it would function as well as a Cervelo or Litespeed tri bike.
I have one. I love it. But, much to my surprise, I ended up with not-so-steep geomitry. I went in looking for steep. I worked with Paul from Signature Cycles. After 3 hours on the adjustable bike and getting really really confortable, I was SHOCKED to find that the seat tube was not 78 - 80 but more like 76 - 77. We steepened it up and my comfort AND power dropped.
Anyway, it is a beautiful bike. If you work with a good fitter – and I’d guess that anyone who does these beauties is pretty good - you’ll end up with the bike you want.
It was a custom, but understand that there is no “stock” size CXII or CXIIcs. Like JHESEE, I was also surprised to discover that my optimum position was not as “steep” as I thought it would be. It was more like 76 degrees. When I went steeper, power output and ability to sustain it dropped.
Anyway, I love my CXIIcs. It flies! Get a fitter who has been to Serotta’s Advanced Fit School. They will optimize your performance and you will get a bike that takes advantage of this. It will be nearly impossible to purchase a bike that will permit you to achieve more on it.
This process is an example of building a bike to the rider versus making the bike fit the rider. The harmony achieved between the rider and the bike is unbelievable! You must experience it to fully understand it. You will not be disappointed.
My first Serotta experience led to two more Serotta experiences. I now have three Serottas in my stable.
I’ve done 5 IM’s on it and q’d for Kona 2x, so I am “happy” with the performace. But I think the bikes are waay over-priced. Steel and Ultegra for $3,500 isn’t any bargain. For either a $1,000 less you can get a lot lighter alu bike, or $500 more a much lighter carbon one. Obviously I think the bike is fine, but I definitely feel that with a little more work on my part, I would have gotten a better deal and better bike. I can’t imagine that the ride on steel is really so much better (one of the big marketing pushes that the sellers will offer), otherwise you wold see more of them around.
I think the local bike shop connection is important when buying a bike: a) you will always have small nits that will need warranty fixing and it is completely impractical to get it fixed by “JSG”, even if he does want to fix your problems (the “JSG” I bought from would only say, “call the manufacturer’s customer service” when I had a brand new componant that wasn’t working). Also, I think there is a fair amount of tweaking with the fit after you adapt to your new ride, so you should have access to the fitter.
I love my serotta and my next bike will be a serotta. It truely feels like an extension of me.
But I started my search pretty much against serotta and custom in general at the fitter.
I went to signature cycles with all of the geometries of all of the bikes I wanted in hand. We set the size cycle to each looked power evaluted comfort etc.
Then we set up the size cycle to produce optimum results and no one made that geometry. Hence a custom serotta was it.
Don’t get hung up seat tube angle. If you work with a good fitter then the geometry will work it self out.
If you are in a financial postion to purchase a serotta it will never be anything but extraordinary.
If you are in the NYC metro area contact paul levine. He can get any bike that you want including the cxII. PS any one of the Serotta models can be built to any geeometry.
I just got a CX II CS for my 40th b-day (great wife). The custom fit is incredible and I cannot imagine ever getting a stock bike again. Riding in a variety of positions on other bikes, I could never stay in the aero bars for more than about 70% of the time, less for extremely long rides. With the Serotta, I am in the aero bars 99% of the time regardless of distance. Also, while I too ended up w/relatively slack angles, my power output is much greater than on my road bike and even greater than on steeper rides I have tried.The bike is also more comfortable than my ti road bike and is a real beauty.
It was well worth the extra money. The only frame builders I know that will make a cheaper custom steel bike are very very small. Iit will take a very long time to get the bike and their fitters are not likely to be as tuned in to the builder as Serotta is w/their fitters.
I have an Ottrott, but the CXII is very nice. Any of their bikes can be made “tri” geometry. The CXII is certainly a steel, I mean steal, for the price. Steel is a wonderful material, just requires a little more attention to keep it in great shape.
I’d not be surprised to see you end up slightly slacker from a Serotta fit than from a FIST fit. That seems to be the experience of most people here. I’d like to do a more in depth comparison with Paul Levine as to why this happens, but I think it does fairly often. Not that this is right/wrong. Just different. But if you like to ride steep, you might want to discuss that with your fitter, and go over the angles he is putting you at.
how is it that you couldn’t replicate the dimensions of the Serotta fit on another bike, given seat movements and cockpit variances with bars and stems and spacers? Or was it just that particular fit that made you comfortable and not the actual frame design?
I have tried to get info on the way the Serotta’s are “custom” designed, and from what I can gather, it is not like they change chainstays and head rake/trail angles on them (which get really complicated to adjust all the other lengths and still have a good handling bike…which would require testing before it was shipped to find out if it was), so when you get a “custom” Serotta frame, it seems that you are really getting a frame that falls into set of basic ranges, which are the same as other builders, but maybe with a few more frame sizes than other builders.
Did your bike have lots of fractions on the tube sizes? I haven’t gotten anyone to spec out the real differences between a customer frame and a stock frame, other than a greater # of standard frame sizes (which are then built custom so that they don’t have to carry lots of off-size inventory)
Ben, help me out with this: “When I went steeper, power output and ability to sustain it dropped.”
Were you fitted to your Serotta for TT’s or Tri’s? If you were fitted for Tri’s, do you think the ‘suprisingly’ slack seat post angle impacted your run negatively even though it increased your cycling power? Am I being clear? I want to know if there was a percieved trade off. We all know a steeper angle makes us better runners, but makes the bike somewhat less comfortable. Comments from those who have first hand experience? Thanks.
I thought the same thing before I got this bike. Not being a builder, I can’t specifically answer your questions. All I can say is that it fits like a glove and my non-custom road bike does not despite a fit by a good fitter and several tweeks of stem, etc. I know others who have had the same experience with custom. Also, I apparently have weird proportions. My CX II has a fairly short top tube and a tall head tube. No stock bike has dimensions close to it. I tried to get my road bike to fit like this (w/clip-on aero bars) by playing w/ the stem, rise, seat post, etc. and couldn’t get the comfort I have now and it handled poorly.
When you get a custom bike ( I have a Cyfac and Serotta and my wife has a Serotta) you not only get the custom goemetry, you also get the correct tubes for your height, weight and performance characteristics. Usually your fitter will actually design the bike to have the appropriate tubeset.
I too have worked with Paul Levine, for my home’s two Serotta’s and they both fit like a glove. I wouldn’t have believed there would be such a difference before I rode it. But now, Serotta’s are the only option for me.
I have a CXIICS. My comments will basically echo those posted above. A great handling/riding/comfortable bike. My seat tube angle is also somewhat slacker but this is the angle we worked out after my different angle/stem/top tube length experiments. I also wanted something that what a little more forgiving to my 40 plus year old body.
This bike also climbs a little bit easier than the traditional steep angled tri bike and hence, where I live in California, makes it a bike I can ride up and down our mountains without any problems.
I am a bigger guy at 6’2" with a longer torso, so a stock sized frame usually means I have to max out somewhere on the bike to find a workable position.
My custom sizing allows me a great deal of room to change my position up/down, forward and aft and if I want I can even get a steeper angle fit in. It was designed this way.
I have the carbon fiber seat stay option, but frankly I don’t know if it really adds anything in terms of extra comfort.
I saw a couple of other folks at IMLP with their CXII’s and they were all equally enthusiastic. They were also bigger riders so maybe it has something to do with finally getting a bike that fits properly.
I have had my bike at just over 60 mph and it descends as if it is on rails.
I have owned and ridden steel, titanium and aluminum bikes. The steel frame of the CXII rides and responds beautifully but another option is to have Serotta build you a Concours titanium frame with your tri bike dimensions. My titanium road bike does absorb more of the road shock and is slightly more comfortable over the long haul.
You cannot go wrong dealing with Serotta. I wouldn’t worry about whether they can build a steep angled tri bike. They can.
Steel is a wonderful material, just requires a little more attention to keep it in great shape.