I was going for the ultimate fit on my second bike. My first road bike, the litespeed stock (carbon Pavia)$3k build out was Ok - I was going for the upgrade custom ultimate Serotta fit feeling it would still be an improvement on my stock Litespeed. The bike shop thought it would be a good idea if I got a titanium frame for my second bike (no problem there) and I was told I had to go custom - no stock bike would fit since they felt I needed a shorter top tube. The Serotta head tube angle and shortened top tube are so exagerrated that I can’t get comfortable on it resulting in hand numbness (after 10-15 minutes) and shoulder pain even dukring short rides. 2 bike shops in the area looked at the geometry and both just shook their heads saying they have never seen such a wierd geometry and both stated I don’t even need a custom bike. I could be easily fit on a stock bike.
Sell your bike on Ebay and buy a stock bike.
So when you put the litespeed next to the serotta and line the bottom brackets up, what is the position of the saddle of the serotta compared to the litespeed (x cm higher/lower - x cm forward/back)? Same question regarding the tops of the handlebars? (tell us also if the bottom bracket height from the ground is different.) What is the length of stem on each bike?
File a law suit. It will cost you up front but it is your best way to get them to fix the problem. If you really want to get their attention, try to make it a class action.
Class action? One person, with damages of maybe $15,000 all total including penalties, etc. and you think you can make it class action? Class action needs large numbers of people affected, and IIRC, something like 5 million minimum in potential damages.
John
I really disagree with this. The dealer was the authorized Serotta representative. It is Serotta’s choice to go through authorized dealers, not deal with customer’s directly. If they did deal with customer’s directly, this screw-up never would have happened.
I don’t know enough about how exactly Serotta does it but here is how it was done at Litespeed and that might make a difference.
When a customer wants a custom bike he discusses that with an authorized Litespeed dealer (that only means that they are authorized to sell the goods and does not specifically say they are fit trained) and it often depends completely on the customer how they come to the design/fit idea. The customer may know exactly what he/she wants; the customer may have an existing bike that they like and they want the dealer to use those numbers/angles; the customer may be uncomfortable on a current bike an is looking to a shop for guidance; etc.
When the customer and the dealer have worked out what they want/need and agreed on the numbers, they send those to Litespeed. (That could actually be a nice fit drawing, a hand doodle or just numbers) Once Brad DeVaney and the custom department recives that information they communicate with the customer/or dealer to make sure that there are no further questions, or point out concerns such as toe overlap or similar if that comes up. The custom department then draws up a small technical drawing of the bike desired (8.5 x 11) and sends it back to the shop. The shop/customer then have to look at it and sign off on it, or raise questions if they come up. The full size drawing and custom build gets started only after the customer/dealer signs off on it.
Amazing that anyone would blame this on the builder. Unless they built was not what was ordered they did everything right. While it may suck that a shop insisted that they build a custom bike that did not fit, certainly not the fault of the builder. Those suggesting any legal responsibility because the shop was “authorized” do not understand the legal issues.
The OP should file this one under life experiences.
Like someone else said, I don’t think Serotta is at fault. They are building a frame to the specifications that were specified by the shop that were clearly incorrect. They felt that the specifications were unusual and took the time to check with the shop to ensure that they were correct. Unless they incorrectly built the frame I don’t see how they are at fault in any way. If you were getting custom windows for your house and your contractor measured the dimensions incorrectly would you find the window manufacturer at fault?
Filing a lawsuit will cost you much more than $4600 and even then you would probably lose. After you received your bike and the fit was completely off, did you not take some measurements on the new bike and compare them to your Litespeed.
Serotta knows they have representatives out there who are ‘experts’ of their fit method and design. If Serotta has certified these shops as fitters, Serotta has the duty to ensure their fitters are appropriatley and properly representing their products. If Serotta is behaving as the builder and the ultimate expert and identified your frameset as questinable and which was the source of comment “are you fucking kidding” and failed to correct their representative(the closed bike shop) and possibly failed to do their own due diligence in questioning the measurements, requesting measurements be retaken and still built your frame that was highly suspect, you could arguably look to Serotta for some responsibility. But if Serotta did request that more be done,beyond just comment, to ensure the correct frameset be built and the shop still insisted that it was correct, it is the shop’s responsibility.
Both Serotta and the shop have and had the obligation to deliver a product that you requested. Beyond just getting a custom frameset, you were asking for and wanting a frameset that was comfortable, and fit you properly. You got a frameset, which you requested, but neither of your other prerequisites were met.
I just LOVE how several people instantly opted for the small claims/lawsuit option…
As I see it, there was a lack of person to person discussion here. Considering the cost and nature of the frame, if the people at Serotta felt the measurements were not correct, somebody should have brought this to your attention. You would have had the option to refit at the first shop, another shop recommended by Serotta, or give the go ahead. The responsibility would have been yours then. Like I said this doesnt help you now. Have you talked to somebody at Serotta on the phone? That is an expensive frame. You not only should expect quality, but also customer service. In order to sell a custom Serotta frame, does the fitter at the shop have to be trained in the Serotta fit system?
. If Serotta thought the numbers were “off”, they should have taken the initiative to discuss it with you before building and not just taken the shops word for it.
Why would they ask a consumers opinion on bike fit?
They wouldn’t ask his opinion. They would discuss the intended purpose of the bike, explain why they thought the numbers provided by the shop might not be right and ask the rider if there were any physical circumstances that might have accounted for the off numbers. They would come to an understanding of any steps that might need to be repeated and then agree on a solution that didn’t leave the poster with a useless frame.
That’s pretty much stuff all good framebuilders do. It’s also one of the things that is wrong with the shop affiliated mass produced “custom builders”. There is no direct interaction or it is discouraged.
I’ve had two custom frames built. Tom Kellogg works directly with you and Waterford goes through shops, but I can call Richard Schwinn and discuss anything I want with him about my frame and they are happy to do it.
Small claims isn’t anywhere near a lawsuit. I know you’re Canadian, so you probably don’t realize that small claims court is only for small amounts of money and no lawyers are involved. Costs maybe $30 or so to file.
Sorry, but if I coughed up $4600 for an unrideable custom bike I wouldn’t just write it off as ‘life experience.’
I’m aware of the difference between small claims court and a lawsuit, but don’t you think that jumping immediately to SCC is a bit of an overreaction? Okay, so the shop that sold him the bike and did the bad fit is out of business. Next you contact the company (which he’s done). Then you work with the company / escalate the matter internally until either some form of resolution is achieved or a stalemate is reached - at which point it may be an appropriate time to file a claim.
It’s the eagerness to get the courts involved at what appears to be a fairly early stage that I’m questioning…
File a law suit. It will cost you up front but it is your best way to get them to fix the problem. If you really want to get their attention, try to make it a class action.
Class action? One person, with damages of maybe $15,000 all total including penalties, etc. and you think you can make it class action? Class action needs large numbers of people affected, and IIRC, something like 5 million minimum in potential damages.
John
You are right. Here is some junk from wiki:
Class action lawsuits may be brought in federal court if the claim arises under federal law, or if the claim falls under 28 USCA § 1332 (d). Under § 1332 (d) (2) the federal district courts have original jurisdiction over any civil action where the amount in controversy exceeds $5,000,000 and either 1. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a citizen of a State different from any defendant; 2. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a foreign state or a citizen or subject of a foreign state and any defendant is a citizen of a State; or 3. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a citizen of a State and any defendant is a foreign state or a citizen or subject of a foreign state. Nationwide plaintiff classes are possible, but such suits must have a commonality of issues across state lines.
since this is a road bike, what measurements are so wrong that can’t be compensated for? Stem wise, 80mm and less is non functional as well as 140mm and up. That gives you 2.36" of flexibility in reach. Same goes with the height of the bars. From zero spacers and flipped downward (at different angles) to lots of spacers and flipped upwards should give you tons of adjustability. Saddle height is also a non-issue as you can go from seeing almost no seat post to ridiculously high with the right seat post. To me, all that a custom bike is good for is to utilize a 120mm stem with one spacer and a flipped downward stem and an eye pleasing amount of seat post. For whatever reason, not saying that it was your responsibility, you didn’t get the right combo. That doesn’t mean that the bike is unrideable right?
I agree, it must be a cultural thing.
I agree, it must be a cultural thing.
a SUPERIOR cultural thing.
suck it up, england.
Like someone else said, I don’t think Serotta is at fault. They are building a frame to the specifications that were specified by the shop that were clearly incorrect. They felt that the specifications were unusual and took the time to check with the shop to ensure that they were correct. Unless they incorrectly built the frame I don’t see how they are at fault in any way. If you were getting custom windows for your house and your contractor measured the dimensions incorrectly would you find the window manufacturer at fault?
No problem with anything you say here, but you leave out one crucial point. The fitter was a Serotta Certified fitter. What good is that certification if all it means is that you get a poorly-fitting bike and the company that certifies them takes no responsibility?
“The second bike shop has been in constant contact with Serotta for the past month, and I have emailed Serotta close to a dozen times about this, but Serotta still has not offered to do anything to fix this problem.”
I must be a cultural trait of the former empire to not read all of the facts before casting aspersions
.
Perhaps I’m being obtuse, but isn’t part of the fitting process putting you on their fit cycle with the intended measurements, and have you ride for awhile and see what you think? If they missed that step, then they did indeed do you a grave disservice.
Although I hope that Serotta steps up to the plate and solves your problem (you’d think they’d back their shops), it was the shop that screwed the pooch on this one (they should have advised you of Serotta’s concerns), and it’s too bad they went out of business. Good luck.
-J\V
File a law suit. It will cost you up front but it is your best way to get them to fix the problem. If you really want to get their attention, try to make it a class action.
Class action? One person, with damages of maybe $15,000 all total including penalties, etc. and you think you can make it class action? Class action needs large numbers of people affected, and IIRC, something like 5 million minimum in potential damages.
John
You are right. Here is some junk from wiki:
Class action lawsuits may be brought in federal court if the claim arises under federal law, or if the claim falls under 28 USCA § 1332 (d). Under § 1332 (d) (2) the federal district courts have original jurisdiction over any civil action where the amount in controversy exceeds $5,000,000 and either 1. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a citizen of a State different from any defendant; 2. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a foreign state or a citizen or subject of a foreign state and any defendant is a citizen of a State; or 3. any member of a class of plaintiffs is a citizen of a State and any defendant is a foreign state or a citizen or subject of a foreign state. Nationwide plaintiff classes are possible, but such suits must have a commonality of issues across state lines.
No problem. I join. I intend to buy a custom Serotta for myself and form a road, tri, cross and MTB team. We will be sth like 200+ riders, all on Serottas. Give it half a year for them to build the frames and then we join the show.
It’s blame time!