Is there any evidence to support the idea that a relatively slacker seat tube climbs better than a steeper one, all else being equal? If not, what is behind the idea that “tri bikes don’t climb as well as road bikes?” After reading all of Dan’s FIST stuff, it sounds to me that the hip angle should be the same on both road and tri bikes, so the power output should be the same on both bikes.
As a Coloradoan, most of my rides involve a couple thousand feet of climbing, so I’m wondering if a bike built to be steep would be a good idea. I’m still flexible and early 30’s, so the physiology isn’t a factor, I don’t think. I’m just curious if a 75 degree bike would be “better suited” for the kind of riding I do than a 78+ degree. Any thoughts? Would I likely even notice any difference?
Is there any evidence to support the idea that a relatively slacker seat tube climbs better than a steeper one, all else being equal? If not, what is behind the idea that “tri bikes don’t climb as well as road bikes?” After reading all of Dan’s FIST stuff, it sounds to me that the hip angle should be the same on both road and tri bikes, so the power output should be the same on both bikes.
As a Coloradoan, most of my rides involve a couple thousand feet of climbing, so I’m wondering if a bike built to be steep would be a good idea. I’m still flexible and early 30’s, so the physiology isn’t a factor, I don’t think. I’m just curious if a 75 degree bike would be “better suited” for the kind of riding I do than a 78+ degree. Any thoughts? Would I likely even notice any difference?
Any you guys think a Softride would be used in a race like the Savageman tri? I’m thinking of attempting this race but my bike is a Softride. Any input would be appreciated.
according to Hinault, on climbs you usually move up in the saddle because it offsets the gradient of the road. You can interpret this has steeper seat tubes are better for climbing because it off sets the gradient.
A LBS said the same thing. He said its bad for the hills because it would be hard to shift. I think he’s wrong,… Ok its harder to shift but that doesn’t make it bad for hills. My only problem for using my TT bike for hills is the gear ratio, and the fact that my back is nearly horizontal while climbing which equals a uncomfortable set up for climbing. You know what i mean?
according to Hinault, on climbs you usually move up in the saddle because it offsets the gradient of the road. You can interpret this has steeper seat tubes are better for climbing because it off sets the gradient.
A LBS said the same thing. He said its bad for the hills because it would be hard to shift. I think he’s wrong,… Ok its harder to shift but that doesn’t make it bad for hills. My only problem for using my TT bike for hills is the gear ratio, and the fact that my back is nearly horizontal while climbing which equals a uncomfortable set up for climbing. You know what i mean? http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1373325
it depends on the sort of bike you’re riding. if it’s a tri bike, stay tri. if it’s a road bike, you’re fine. just don’t try to ride a tri bike like a road bike once you hit a hill.
i don’t know if you noticed during that final TdF TT, but it wasn’t exactly flat. there was a bit of a hill in it partway through, where they had a time check, and most of the better TTers just stayed in the aero position and spun up. that’s how you do it.
I think the misconception comes from the fact that a lot of road riders will accelerate and push hard up a hill, while most triathletes, who have nothing to gain from an attack on a hill, keep the power relatively constant. I often get passed by roadies on hills, catch them soon after the summit when they’re spent. I actually find it quite amusing.
Wait…wait… I know the answer to this one! Actually I’m realtively new to this, but let me say: it depends on your style of climbing, and also how steep the hill is. If I stand to clear a hill on my tri bike, I feel squished in by the saddle and can’t get that waggle thing going that maximises your mashing power when you’re going up a steep hill. The hills in most triathlons aren’t usually so steep that you absolutely have to stand to get up them; standing on a tri bike is most useful if it’s a short, steep hill and you don’t want to lose any momentum, or else just to give your muscles something different to do. The top people - I’m thinking of Courtney Ogden - are going to be hovering on the nose of their saddles all the way up - for instance - Richter Pass, almost like they’re standing, and occasionally they’ll inject a bit of real standing and resonant waggle into it to get past a particularly steep section or just to maintain momentum. I’m not a big bike guru, this is just what I have observed, and I thought I’d share it. Like a real Slowtwitcher.
Is there any evidence to support the idea that a relatively slacker seat tube climbs better than a steeper one, all else being equal? If not, what is behind the idea that “tri bikes don’t climb as well as road bikes?” After reading all of Dan’s FIST stuff, it sounds to me that the hip angle should be the same on both road and tri bikes, so the power output should be the same on both bikes.
As a Coloradoan, most of my rides involve a couple thousand feet of climbing, so I’m wondering if a bike built to be steep would be a good idea. I’m still flexible and early 30’s, so the physiology isn’t a factor, I don’t think. I’m just curious if a 75 degree bike would be “better suited” for the kind of riding I do than a 78+ degree. Any thoughts? Would I likely even notice any difference?
Any you guys think a Softride would be used in a race like the Savageman tri? I’m thinking of attempting this race but my bike is a Softride. Any input would be appreciated.
Having ridden the SavageMan course on multiple occasions, I would say that far more important than seat tube angles or even tri bike vs road bike is that you are comfortable descending and that you have enough gears. I don’t mind climbing with my tri bike, but I do not care for technical descents on it, and particularly miss the drops. SavageMan in particular is a tough call as most of the first 20 miles (with the exception of a technical 4 mile descent) are fast and good for a tri bike, and the last 10 miles are gently rolling and good for a tri bike. But those middle 25 miles are not. A Softride is heavy and not the ideal bike choice for a course like that, but far and away the biggest factor is to have enough gears and to be comfortable descending on the bike.
it depends on the sort of bike you’re riding. if it’s a tri bike, stay tri. if it’s a road bike, you’re fine. just don’t try to ride a tri bike like a road bike once you hit a hill.
i don’t know if you noticed during that final TdF TT, but it wasn’t exactly flat. there was a bit of a hill in it partway through, where they had a time check, and most of the better TTers just stayed in the aero position and spun up. that’s how you do it.
I rode the TdF final TT course and it was definitely not flat with ~1500ft of climbing, but all the climbs were very gradual. Certainly the kind of climbs you would stay in the aerobars for, and all of the pros did. But, what about real hills like SavageMan or the TdF mountain stages or even the first Tdf TT stage (13)? You’re not proposing that the best way to ride sustained 8% or greater climbs is in the aerobars, are you? How about The Beast in St. Croix? Most people ride TT bikes on that course and no one climbs the Beast in their aerobars. Aren’t they riding their tri bikes like road bikes then? Surely there is some gradient at which riding in the aerobars becomes counterproductive - maybe somewhere in the 4-5% range.
A couple of observations that might help explain this:
Road bikes are typically a bit lighter than tri bikes. The aero vs. weight tradeoffs over an entire course can be (have been?) debated at length, but nobody can deny the advantage of light weight when you’re climbing at 6-8 mph.
Even if all the rider angles (particularly hip angle) are identical between a road setup and a tri setup (with the tri setup just rotated further forward), a road setup will put more weight over the saddle. This allows greater force (and therefore more power) to be applied during the pedal downstroke, although this can be ameliorated by snugging up and bracing against the aerobars on a tribike. Note that there still is an aerobic cost to this increased power. Finally, this is all moot if the rider is standing.
I don’t think it’s a misconception. I think it’s real and that the main difference has to do with efficiency and aerodynamics.
A good tri bike is designed for aerodynamics and efficiency. It’s very low in front. Some cyclists - usually roadies, not triathletes - like to stomp the climbs. If you want total power, not fuel efficiency, the road bike is the better geometry because it lets you breathe more deeply and stomp more powerfully. Less efficient, but faster for climbing. Not a good strategy in a triathlon, though.
If TT bikes were better for climbing, pro cyclists would use them in the climbing stages. But they don’t; they use the superior road bikes. In TTs, they use the superior TT bikes. But the advantages of TT bikes, aerodynamics and efficiency, are of less value in climbs.