I spent last 4 months working on the getting my feet under me, not chasing my head, forefoot strike, 180 cadence, arms up, relax upper body, lean with may ankles. Throughout all of this my outer calf just keeps knotting up. Then it is calf raises, stretching, rolling, bosu ball w/ one leg, core strength, ladder drills. Still knotting. So I purchased a pair of Hokas just to see if it would give me some relief and waddayknow I can run. Just enough cushion to let my calf relax a bit and I don’t get knotted up. Yeah I am running more mid strike, my cadence just gets to 170, and I tend to bunch up my shoulders. I say who cares. I can run without pain. At what point do you just say you have not-so-perfect form?
Now onto my swim today. Head down, rotate, elbows up, head to ear when I breathe, full power through the stroke…(sigh)
**At what point do you just say you have not-so-perfect form? **
I’m not good enough or running enough miles to be concerned about perfect running form. For the most part, I’m of the opinion that if you run more and try to run harder, you’re body will figure out the best running form for you.
**At what point do you just say you have not-so-perfect form? **
I’m not good enough or running enough miles to be concerned about perfect running form. For the most part, I’m of the opinion that if you run more and try to run harder, you’re body will figure out the best running form for you.
And what happens when your body gets injured before it “figures it out”?
And what happens when your body gets injured before it “figures it out”?
There’s a higher probability that an injury was caused by too much, too soon or not enough recovery than bad form. There’s an even greater chance that trying to actively change your form to what you think is ‘perfect’ will cause an injury more than the ‘perfect form’ will prevent an injury. Increase your mileage slowly and stay consistent.
try and work on one thing at a time. eventually it will get locked into your subconsciousness. this is especially true in swimming. i find it hard to concentrate on much more with any success.
My form sucked. I adjusted it with the help of a coach. I did NOT get any faster immediately. A year and a half later, however, suddenly I am setting running PR s. I am on the wrong side of 40 and I have been running for a while. I am pretty certain that the new found speed is due to improved efficiency. Although only worth 10 sec/mile, I am glad I found it.
No opinion on injuries.
Stand at mile 25 of a marathon and you will notice that there are many, many running forms that run faaaast. Some are pretty, some are not. Some appear efficient, some do not. Find what works for you and ignore the other white noise.
And what happens when your body gets injured before it “figures it out”?
There’s a higher probability that an injury was caused by too much, too soon or not enough recovery than bad form. There’s an even greater chance that trying to actively change your form to what you think is ‘perfect’ will cause an injury more than the ‘perfect form’ will prevent an injury. Increase your mileage slowly and stay consistent.
You just said to “run more and run harder” and your body will figure it out. You second post directly contradicts that…which was what I was getting at.
Just telling people to run more and harder is a recipe for injury.
If you were trying too hard with forefoot strike it’s no wonder your calves knotted up… landing on the forefoot puts a huge demand on the calf complex. Then you added items that put MORE demand on the calves (calf raises, BOSU, ladder drills). Finally, if you lack ankle joint mobility (a ton of runners do) your calf is working harder to overcome it.
Your Hokas probably allow a heel or midfoot strike more comfortably. Who had you doing all that stuff? geesh. My calves hurt just reading your post!
Hard to say if it was a form issue for you, it may have been poor advice
You can’t just roll. You need something like trigger point or massage to break up the muscle tissue, and at the right area, not necessarily where it hurts or bothers you. Once you figure it out, it should disappear almost instantly. I had the same problem with my Achilles when I transitioned my running to mid-strike and had to loosen up the lower calf to get it to release. Also, it took me at least a year to fully transition over. Keep at it.
If you look at the successful pros, there’s definitely a range of techniques. Also differences between what seems to work for guys and what seems to work for girls. So I agree with you, let’s all forget this largely narcissistic obsession with “perfect form”. Every ‘type’ of running form predisposes you to a different set of ailments, so you have to be the one to look out for those. No panacea for injuries; just honest work and self-awareness.
That said, I highly disapprove of your choice of Hokas, on a number of grounds (actually, mostly aesthetic, so I’m a hypocrite) but whatever works for you…
Matt Fitzgerald wrote a whole chapter on this subject in IronWar, the Mark Allen/Dave Scott bio. He cites quite a bit of 3rd party evidence to say that in the end, find what suits you, not whats perfect. I’ts been a while since I read it and some people may violently disagree but I got quite a bit from this.
Possibly by coincidence, I’m also prone to calf issues but I’ve worked out that its not due to form - which some good coaches have checked and its all ok - its from being too tight through the hips & hammies and the lower legs over-compensating. Basically, getting stiffer as I get older. Trigger point helps release the tension but its getting things loosened up which really drives the long term resolution. For me.
You can’t just roll. You need something like trigger point or massage to break up the muscle tissue, and at the right area, not necessarily where it hurts or bothers you. Once you figure it out, it should disappear almost instantly. I had the same problem with my Achilles when I transitioned my running to mid-strike and had to loosen up the lower calf to get it to release. Also, it took me at least a year to fully transition over. Keep at it.
The top 3 at Kona all looked pretty stiff to me running. So I figure piss on it, do whatever feels comfortable, because that’s how you WILL run after the bike leg. So you might as well train that way.
The only times I’ve seen real improvement in my running form was when I ran a lot more.
+1000 on too much too soon. I’m living that experience right now with the first significant leg injury I’ve ever had (first time something hasn’t cleared up in 3-5 days.)
You can’t make your self run better or faster. It just happens with consistent training.
And what happens when your body gets injured before it “figures it out”?
There’s a higher probability that an injury was caused by too much, too soon or not enough recovery than bad form. There’s an even greater chance that trying to actively change your form to what you think is ‘perfect’ will cause an injury more than the ‘perfect form’ will prevent an injury. Increase your mileage slowly and stay consistent.
You just said to “run more and run harder” and your body will figure it out. You second post directly contradicts that…which was what I was getting at.
Just telling people to run more and harder is a recipe for injury.
No, he did not contradict himself. He said that running more is better, but running too much can result in injury. There is a difference between more and too much.
And what happens when your body gets injured before it “figures it out”?
There’s a higher probability that an injury was caused by too much, too soon or not enough recovery than bad form. There’s an even greater chance that trying to actively change your form to what you think is ‘perfect’ will cause an injury more than the ‘perfect form’ will prevent an injury. Increase your mileage slowly and stay consistent.
You just said to “run more and run harder” and your body will figure it out. You second post directly contradicts that…which was what I was getting at.
Just telling people to run more and harder is a recipe for injury.
No, he did not contradict himself. He said that running more is better, but running too much can result in injury. There is a difference between more and too much.
But he also added in “run harder”…for people who are just beginning to run, simply saying run “more” and “harder” is likely to lead to injuries well before your body “figures it out”.
Not a great runner here but started the BarryP program now 5 months ago and I am hitting PRs in all my races. I have spent zero time thinking about form or really even shoes for that matter. Run comfortably and in what feels comfortable very consistently is my mantra.
As an FYI is started the program after running years at ~20miles per week and now I average 35m/w hopefully getting to 40-45 by mid this year.
x2 - I couldn’t agree more with your statement “you’re body will figure out the best running form for you”.
This is true.
Your spinal cord and cerebellum were specifically evolved to adapt optimally for running. It’s been studied in detail, with several high level papers documenting the human evolution specifically to run distances over the millenia. You do not need higher brain function to run - it’s hardwired for optimal gait for your ability and anatomy.
Very different than swimming, where it’s entirely an actively learned skill and takes years of training to hardwire those good form practices.
In fact, in running, if you naturally have a weird gait, it’s likely the best gait for your current run ability level and anatomy, and you shouldn’t change it. We’ve all heard of those stories about a few strong college runners who have a weird gait of sorts and have no success in getting faster by changing it. Training Ryan Hall to increase the height of his weirdly low armswing would likely be disastrous.
In running, just run. Slower, but more. Gradually (Barryp is good.) Do not use swimming analogy - it is a totally different physiology and totally different innate ability, with one we’re adapted specifically for (run) and one were’ not.
As an aside, a lot of triathlon coaches LOVE to write books and post tons of videos about all this run technique and drills after drills after drills - because the clients love them and think they’re getting special inside information with all these things. When in reality, you can just put the vast majority of them on BarryP or similar, up their weekly mileage by 33% gradually, and they’ll be crushing their PRs, no skills training required.