Savageman Tips and Tricks

Triathlon Forum
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Hi there, a few locals have asked me about Savageman for 2019. It seems like this race is bubbling up on peoples radar a little more this year and that’s a great thing! I thought I’d start a thread to attempt to push people over the edge and sign up for one of my absolute favorite events.

To start, I am one of just a handful of people that have been there every year and made it up the wall. Savageman has been part of my life longer than my kids! I’ve never finished worse than 4th overall but never won so there’s that too. My perspective has always been on the competitive side but the way I race (super slow swim and claw my way back) and since I’ve made many friends through the race I think I have a good handle on how to survive the day as well!

If you are on the fence about doing the race, sign up! It’s a miracle races like this exist so support them while you can. This race along with American Zofingen, American Triple-T, and Powerman Zofingen are my favorites just because they are outside the norm. Everyone pushes themselves on this course and there is mutual respect from everyone that does it.

Savageman can be really family friendly. Bring them! We always camp at the state park so it’s close to the race start but there are plenty of family friendly things to do nearby. The park has playgrounds right on the run course so if you have little ones it’s relatively easy to do the race and still see your family as you slog it out.

Train for the bike but don’t neglect the run. Seriously. The bike gets a lot of the oohs and aaahs as it should but the run is no joke. Get comfortable running downhill as well as up. The downhills are crucial just to keep your momentum up. I have the run course record and remember running hard on all the downhills. You can wear racing flats if you want but the fire road downhill can be a little loose and rocky.

Pick whatever bike you can descend on comfortably. For a long time…really, the first 20 miles is a long, long downhill. Aero can help but only if you stay on your bike and the road! Know the course too…it’s worth the drive to hit the first downhill just so you know what you are in for. Even better to preride the course this summer. I’ve used tri bikes every year except one. For me the tri bike is faster as I’m comfortable on it and the last 5 miles is where I make up the most time.

The sun will be in your eyes for the first half mile of the swim. That’s all I got for the swimmers since I avoid it like the plague!

The Westernport Wall…send friends and family out to this for your ascent. The last block is super fun when there is a crowd and the bigger and louder it is the more adrenaline you’ll have. Go as easy as you can the first couple of blocks leading into the final broken concrete section. Stay to the right if you can but mainly stay away from anyone else! Having a clean run into it is the best thing you can do. Once over the bump at the top it’s still a climb but an aid station is close and literally everyone is attempting to recover while still riding at 10%+ grades. The wall is fun but it’s not the hardest climb on the course in my opinion!

Many have talked about the Wall and “Killer Miller” climbs but it’s all the little ones in between and after that wreck your legs. You’ll soon know Otto Lane and Maynardiers Ridge well!

Bring a lot of gear. The first year we had frost at the start and I wore a winter jacket for the entire bike. You’ll want jackets, vests, arm warmers, shoe covers, gloves. For east coast the elevation loss and gain is pretty amazing so dress accordingly. It is miserable to be cold that first 20 miles of the bike.

If you are competitive you’ll like the run course as you can see your competition quite frequently. There’s a few out and backs and the campground loop can give you some idea where you are at. Also don’t rule anything out…racers can fall waaaaay back or make up tons of time on the run course in a hurry. I closed a 15 minute gap to 90 seconds one year and finished second. Don’t give up.

As you can see I could, and should, write a book! If you are on the fence just sign up and consider some of the other races I mentioned too. You’ll be glad you did and I bet you’ll find ways to get back to Deep Creek at other times of the year too!

If anyone has questions I’ll be glad to try to answer them. Fire away!

Josh

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thanks
.

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Is that u Beck?

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Signed up for the triple. Raced the half and olympic before Greg and Kinetic bought the race. Such a great event.

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Thanks for the nice post! I have had this race on my bucket list for years. I have been focusing on off-road triathlon up until this year and have finally signed up. I only live a few hours away so it is always hard to think that it can be that cold on race day in September. I’ll try to see if I can get some good form-fitting windbreaker in case that is needed.

I’m guessing though that once the sun is up enough that the temps get back to normal? I have spent a weekend at Deep Creek in September and thought it was pretty pleasant, but then again the weather around here is usually unpredictable.

For the bike, I still don’t have a great bike… I train on a cross bike, so I used that for the rumpus in bumpass, but the CdA calculation for that bike based on power/speed over some courses using best bike split is quite terrible, so looks like I’ll be in the over 3 hour club for the bike.

What sort of W/kg are you riding at to finish significantly sub 3 hr? W/kg seems to be a better metric than W/CdA on this course, but I may entertain the idea of borrowing a friend’s Roubaix… at least a bit faster than my gravel/cross bike, even with the s-works turbos on it.

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For the bike, I still don’t have a great bike… I train on a cross bike, so I used that for the rumpus in bumpass, but the CdA calculation for that bike based on power/speed over some courses using best bike split is quite terrible, so looks like I’ll be in the over 3 hour club for the bike.

I don’t think it makes you a terrible biker to be over three hours on this course, I think it just makes you not in the 1%.

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AWESOME post, Josh!

You comin’ out to play for AmZof next weekend??
We’ll leave the light on for ya!

Savageman is an amazing event!!
Glad I checked off this bucket list item back in '11 when I was in my lifetime-best fitness.
It’s by far the most brutal multisport bike course there is.

The only thing I’ve done on a tri bike that’s harder, is the Devil’s Kitchen climb that’s part of the Tour of the Catskills.
(and that was probably a big part of why it sucked - a TT bike isn’t the best tool for climbing 15%++ grades)

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We will be there. I know of at least three or four other slowtwitchers who are coming several of them in my group.

Maybe we can test your idea of determining sit bone width with a frozen bag of peas :slight_smile:

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For the bike, I still don’t have a great bike… I train on a cross bike, so I used that for the rumpus in bumpass, but the CdA calculation for that bike based on power/speed over some courses using best bike split is quite terrible, so looks like I’ll be in the over 3 hour club for the bike.

I don’t think it makes you a terrible biker to be over three hours on this course, I think it just makes you not in the 1%.

Sorry if I made it sound like going over 3 hours is terrible. Not what I was trying to say, but definitely losing some significant time due to the bike I own. The estimate is about 10 minutes from BBS when using calculated cda vs the estimated cda for the type of bike.

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This looks tempting! Whats with all the warnings about the “wall” though…is it just a really steep climb? Will I be begging for more gear even in 36-28?

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I bring as much as I can clothing wise and go from there. I will say you warm up FAST once in Westernport. They usually have a clothing drop that you can ditch things there too.

Looking back I think the first year was the coldest. Now I jinxed it and it will be snowing this year :slight_smile:

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Run what you brung bike-wise. I wish I could tell you w/kg and all that stuff about me but I’m more of the “grip it and rip it” race-by-feel kind of guy!

The word of the day should be smooth; ride smooth. Roll the downhills and try to keep your uphills out of the red zone. Doing that on the bike will make the run so much better.

A few years ago I looked at the strava ride of the winner vs. mine time on the bikes. He crushed me uphills but I pulled it all back on one decent and the last 5 miles of flattish roads. So you can do this course a couple of different ways depending on what type of rider you are.

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oh my gosh, I would by lying if I said I hadn’t considered it next weekend! I have fond memories of that race! Of course any race that doesn’t include a swim is a friend of mine!

The wall in westernport is special because it’s in a triathlon. There just isn’t anything like it anywhere else! I did the USPro race in Philly in 2003 and the last lap up Manayuk was the hardest climb I did. Not the steepest or longest by any means, but that last time up that thing we hit it at warp speed and all I could do was hang on for dear life (and not have beer or bbq spilled on me!). And somewhere at the front of the field some Euro guy was off the front riding away from us all lol…

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This is just my two cents as I don’t know how strong everyone is but that sounds like a very reasonable gear PROVIDED you don’t go too hard before the last concrete section of the wall. The trick to the wall is to power up it…too little of a gear and you won’t carry speed, two big of a gear and you won’t turn the pedals over. Go easy as you can at the bottom, power the 50 yards of broken concrete, and then stare at your stem for the next mile and a half because that part is the one that makes you doubt your decision to do the race!

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Great thread! Thanks for starting this Josh! You’re certainly the foremost expert on Savageman! This year does seem to be generating a little more buzz. An additional event and a return to the old course may be just what the doctor ordered.

Switching gears somewhat, I signed up for the triple after too many cold ones and am wondering what everybody is thinking for the swim/run attire? Wetsuit, swimskin,shoes the whole time, change shoes, etc…?

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The warnings about ‘The Wall’ have as much to do with the condition of the ‘road’ as with how steep it is–Josh has called it broken concrete and that’s to say it’s far from a smooth surface-plenty of chances to wheels to spin/hop/kick sideways-just generally not put your power to the road. And that’s just the beginning of a longer climb–like he said then prepare for mile and a half of staring at your stem.

This race is something special-during the race you can’t figure out what you were thinking when you signed up for the race and within 10 minutes of crossing the finish you are thinking about your training/strategy for the next time you race it. It really makes NO sense!! It’s a special, great kind of suffering race!

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This looks tempting! Whats with all the warnings about the “wall” though…is it just a really steep climb? Will I be begging for more gear even in 36-28?

This was my second ever triathlon and I will be back every year. I pre-bike the course each year and even raced last year on the day it was canceled. This event is perfect for all the reasons Josh said.

As for the wall, here is an old post I wrote that is pretty sound advice if you are looking to make it up the wall the safest way possible and not the fastest way.

old post

I am not educated enough to answer your gearing question as I am new to mechanics and workings of a bicycle.

But just some random advice to you regarding the westernport wall and getting your brick in the road:

  1. Paperboy (zig zag across the road to lower the % grade) the shit out of your 1-2 block approach to the wall. But make sure no one is around you and you are not cutting anyone off. Save it all for the wall with the paperboy.

  2. Throw down hard for 30 seconds, get your brick.

  3. Paperboy to recover after the wall, the very beginning of big savage mountain.

As an example It took me 750 watts for 18 seconds to get up the wall.
I paperboy’ed for 50 seconds at 200ish watts leading up to it

Your GPS will look something like this:

https://s33.postimg.cc/56wv3q7zz/wall.jpg

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This looks tempting! Whats with all the warnings about the “wall” though…is it just a really steep climb? Will I be begging for more gear even in 36-28?

Check out YouTube. Good wall videos. Lots of locals catching people who fall.

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A 36x28 might be doable for a lot of folks for “The Wall” section if you play your cards right on the approach. It’s my thought that you should grab as much gear for the rest of the course though! There are just hills upon hills and eventually it’s nice to attempt to spin rather than mash a gear. The first few years a 32 in the back wasn’t a thing in the cycling world but once it appeared it’s been on my bike ever since! I have usually had short cage Shimano derailleurs and it’s been my experience that they work with a 32 once you screw the B-screw in. That keeps the buy in for equipment for Savage a little bit lower…You can spend your money on ice cream at the finish instead!

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Yes - ice cream at the finish FTW!!!

And then a few RecoverWrongs for good measure. 🍺

You really can’t have too much gearing for Savageman.

You’re pretty fresh for The Wall, but by the time you get to Killer Miller, you’ve done a TON of climbing, so you’re pretty spent by then.
That was the closest I’ve even been in a multisport event to not making it up a climb.
Felt like I was about to fall over.