Can all yee who know a heck of a lot more than me explain salt tablets? 1) What do they do, 2) How do they work, 3) How should I think about utilizing them in my first full distance ironman, weather/temp likely to be 80-90’s, will be entering as a middle of the pack cyldesdale.
On the same general topic, I’ve read the 200-400 cals/hour ranges of calorie intake stuff - beyond clif bars and gu - type products, how the heck do you stick an entire day of that horrible stuff? Is there stuff out there I’m missing, or is it all pretty horrible. I have not been able to get close to that range while running - is this normal? Can anyone on earth eat a clif bar and run at the same time?
yep… agree with the other ironmen out there…lava salts or endurolytes to replace electrolytes in the body…these are the essential compounds that allow for muscle contraction among other things and when taken in the proper amounts during the ride will hopefully prevent your muscles from cramping while on the run. You can take them as capsules, or tabslets,or even empty the capsule contents into your bottles of nutrition on the bike. What you really need to do is test and see how much you need during train pre race as far as the electrolyte stuff. Also read up on the info at www.e-caps.com. They also give you great guidelines about nutrition and how many calories your body can take in per hour. This number varies greatly among individuals. This is another part you must test while training. HOw many calories can you really take in and process during the ride. This maybe be anywhere from 275-500 calories per hour. If you discover you are on the low end you may be able to train your body…digestive tract to take in more calories. The other part is to find something that works for you and supplies the necessary calories per hour without becoming too concentrated which will cause bloating in your stomach and prevent emptying of stomach contents which will lead to dehydration and loss of energy;i.e. bonking. It is a bit tricky but you can figure it out…use the guidelines at e-caps. They have terrific products for nutrition such as sustained energy and perpeteum. But this stuff doesn’t taste very good once it becomes warm. I know…I have used it successfully for several races now…workw very very well for me and has given me tons of energy on the run. but again you have to find out what works for you.
And yes I agree…cliff bars, for example, I use post race because they have higher fiber content and will only cause me shitty problems in the middle of the race…this from personal experience.
You’ve gotten good advice. The whole nutrition-hydration-electrolyte challenge is such a balancing act. Add the heat you’re expecting and being a clyde and this will be tough. doable, but tough.
As an example you might start your experiment with something like 300 cals/hr, 24 oz/hr, 300 mg of sodium/hr while on the bike. Do a 5hr bike, 1 hr run. Do the bike like you would in the race. You’ll know soon enough on the run if you nailed it. If problems develop that’s what the forum is for. Good luck. GFT?
ok - I’ll bite and add my 2 cents - fyi, I am not qualified in this area, but I have done 10 IMs and I have consulted with lots of experts on the topic and I have got my times down to ~9hrs.
Hydration - 500mls to 1000mls per hour - your needs are a function of your sweat rate which is highly dependent on temp, humidity, exercise intensity and your acclimatisation - interestingly studies by Noakes indicate that exercise intensity if the biggest factor - i.e. a small guy going fast will actually sweat more than a big guy going slow - after years of being told to “drink, drink, drink”, some races which are held in cooler climates (eg NZ) now say “don’t drink more than 800mls/hr” - overhydration is now recognised as almost as big a problem as underhydration.
Fuel - 300-500 calories per hour - your needs are mainly a function of your size - bigger guys need more fuel - having said that, Ironman is as much an eating contest as it is a swimming/biking/running contest - the more you can get in (and keep down) the better shape you will be in late in the race - I race at about 60kg (135lbs) and I aim for the high end of the above range - in recent times there has been a big push for the addition of protein - I recently consulted with a nutritionist at the Australian Institute of Sport (who also happens to be a 9 hr IMer) and he indicated that there is no science to support the protein hypothesis - the jury is till out on that one.
Electrolytes - this is a function of your sweat rate and the concentration of electrolytes in your sweat - studies show that 1000mls of sweat contains about 30-60mmol (1mmol=20mg) of Sodium, depending largely on your level of acclimatisation - so, if you sweat 1000mls/hr (which is at the high end of sweat rates) you need to replace about 30-60mmol/hr - alternatively, if you sweat less and/or are acclimatised, then your needs will be less - note that most sports drinks only include about 12-15mmol per 1000mls, so you need to find at least as much again from other sources - there is some conjecture about whether other electrolytes are an issue - most seem to agree that you also need to replace Potassium - Magnesium has been in the press lately, although my nutritionist friend has said there is little science to support Magnesium replacement (that is not to say it is wrong - just unproven from a scientific point of view).
With a little planning and practice it is easy to execute a nutrition plan on the bike which meets the above needs. The great challenge is to meet these needs on the run. In my experience, if I try to meet my hydration needs on the run, I will throw up. So I basically plan on running a hydration deficit during the run and hope that it doesn’t get too debilitating. In order to try and maximise fuel during the run, I focus on dense energy sources - eg I replace a sports drink (6% CHO) with Coke (11% CHO).
I utilize Noakes as well, although I may need to read a little closer cause I’m still a 14 hr guy : )…and you wouldn’t believe the sweat rate of a big guy going hard!
Hydration - 500mls to 1000mls per hour - your needs are a function of your sweat rate which is highly dependent on temp, humidity, exercise intensity and your acclimatisation - interestingly studies by Noakes indicate that exercise intensity if the biggest factor - i.e. a small guy going fast will actually sweat more than a big guy going slow - after years of being told to “drink, drink, drink”, some races which are held in cooler climates (eg NZ) now say “don’t drink more than 800mls/hr” - overhydration is now recognised as almost as big a problem as underhydration.
actually Noakes says in the IMMDAA advisory statement for fluid replacement during marathon running: “The rate of heat production is determined by the athlete’s rate of energy expenditure (metabolic rate), which is a function of the athlete’s mass and intensity of effort (running speed).” So, if we assume sweat rate to be a function of heat production (taking into account environmental conditions) it would probably make more sense to say that if a small guy is running as fast as a big guy, the big guy will probably sweat more (all other things being equal). also, “sweat rate” as it is commonly estimated (i.e. by measuring pre- and post-exercise weight) may be grossly overestimated. also from Noakes: “…the weight lost during exercise includes up to 1kg of metabolic fuel that is irreversibly oxidized during exercise plus a variable amount of fluid that is stored with glycogen and released during exercise as the stored liver and muscle glycogen stores are oxidized. It has been calculated that an athlete who loses 2kg of weight during a marathon race would, in fact, be dehydrated by only ~200g when allowance is made for the weight lost from those other sources. Interestingly, the average weight loss during marathon races in which athletes drink ad libitum (i.e. as needed or as preferred) and not ‘as much as possible,’ is between 2-3kg, suggesting that these athletes intuitively (and accurately) assess their needs for fluid replacement during exercise.” Noakes also says in his advisory statement and in other papers that evidence shows that the most dehydrated guys at races are actually the faster ones, meaning that the practice of trying to prevent dehydration so that performance is not degraded may not actually hold water (pun intended). Noakes has also contended that not only are true heat-related illnesses (heat stroke) so rare in reality but that levels of dehydration do not correlate with it’s incidence nor it’s prevention.
Electrolytes - this is a function of your sweat rate and the concentration of electrolytes in your sweat - studies show that 1000mls of sweat contains about 30-60mmol (1mmol=20mg) of Sodium, depending largely on your level of acclimatisation - so, if you sweat 1000mls/hr (which is at the high end of sweat rates) you need to replace about 30-60mmol/hr - alternatively, if you sweat less and/or are acclimatised, then your needs will be less - note that most sports drinks only include about 12-15mmol per 1000mls, so you need to find at least as much again from other sources - there is some conjecture about whether other electrolytes are an issue - most seem to agree that you also need to replace Potassium - Magnesium has been in the press lately, although my nutritionist friend has said there is little science to support Magnesium replacement (that is not to say it is wrong - just unproven from a scientific point of view).
in “Serum electrolyte concentrations and hydartion status are not associated with exercise associated muscle cramping (EAMC) in distance runners” by Schwellnus, et al.: “There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race.” note that the conclusion says clinically significant. there was actually a statistically significant difference in Na levels between those who cramped and those who didn’t (with crampers having lower Na) but the actual level of Na was still considered physiologiocally normal (i.e. <135mmol/l). Mg was also detected to be statistically different between the 2 groups but with Mg actually higher in the crampers (again differences in Mg were within normal limits in both groups). No differences in K and Ca levels were observed. No differences in hydration status were observed either.