Which salt supplements do you find that work well for you? I have a terrible time with cramping and leg pain on the run.
I’ve had very good experiences with Thermolyte tabs.
Which salt supplements do you find that work well for you? I have a terrible time with cramping and leg pain on the run.
Despite anecdotal testimony to the contrary, carefully controlled studies of endurance athletes show that salt supplementation has no effect on cramping or not cramping. Cramping’s main cause is simple fatigue, and the prescription is to train more or pace more carefully.
Tell that to MJ…she downed at least 50 salt pills in October…
Also, I can attest to the following:
A. Hot day, no salt, I cramp
B. Hot day, I take salt, I don’t cramp
I plan to stay with B.
For me…
A. Hot day, no salt, I cramp if I go really hard.
B. Hot day, salt, I cramp if I go really hard.
The only consistent predictor I have ever had for cramping is pushing a long effort to the limit. Half IMs usually do it to me toward the end of the run, or right after I get off the bike. Even on cool days.
People report results such as yours all the time. Still – when athletes have been separated into two groups, and one is given salt and the other a placebo, then they are run really hard – they are equally cramp-prone.
One study examined athletes after an IM race: " CONCLUSION: Acute EAMC in ironman triathletes is not associated with a greater percent body mass loss or clinically significant differences in serum electrolyte concentrations. The increased EMG activity of cramping muscles may reflect increased neuromuscular activity."
Another after an ultra run: “CONCLUSIONS: There are no clinically significant alterations in serum electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race.”
Another had IM athletes take sodium supplements, or not: “CONCLUSIONS: … There was no evidence that sodium ingestion significantly influenced changes in or PV more than fluid replacement alone in the Ironman triathletes in this study. Sodium supplementation was not necessary to prevent the development of hyponatremia in these athletes who lost weight, indicating that they had only partially replaced their fluid and other losses during the Ironman triathlon.”
Do we need salt at all during an IM? “CONCLUSIONS: Ad libitum sodium supplementation was not necessary to preserve serum sodium concentrations in athletes competing for about 12 hours in an Ironman triathlon. The Institute of Medicine’s recommended daily adequate intake of sodium (1.5 g/65 mmol) seems sufficient for a healthy person without further need to supplement during athletic activity.”
Another test concluded: "Serum electrolyte concentrations, including sodium and potassium, were not different between those suffering from cramp and those not so affected either before or after the race, although a significant (P less than 0.001) increase in serum sodium concentrations occurred in both groups. "
Finally, a review article concluded that, "Historically, the causes of EAMC have been proposed as (1) inherited abnormalities of substrate metabolism (‘metabolic theory’) (2) abnormalities of fluid balance (‘dehydration theory’), (3) abnormalities of serum electrolyte concentrations (‘electrolyte theory’) and (4) extreme environmental conditions of heat or cold (‘environmental theory’). Detailed analyses of the available scientific literature including data from recent studies do not support these hypothesis for the causes of EAMC. "
add table salt to your Gatorade
Dirt.
Hammer Nutrition: Endurolytes plus Perpeteum (electolytes in there)
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The Salt Stick Tablets have worked best for me.
And adding salt pills to drinks is pretty harsh. You had better try it out first.
Rock
Or Macca who took too many salt tablets in 2005 and puked for the first 30 miles of the bike until Hellreigel, out of pitty, told him to throw the salt tablets away. I’d bet that he did not do that again. Pros make mistakes sometimes…
Taking 50 salt tablets during an Ironman is not smart and is definitely not supported by science. She got away with one in my opinion. Your N of 1 experiment does not mean much compared to the well controlled published research reports. But don’t trust my opinion. Check out what Dr. Tim Noakes has to say about it (he agrees with Ashburn). He is THE number 1 expert in the field with hundreds of published research reports.
Mike
I mix Endurolyte powder with Perpetuem on my long runs. I also like Succeed tablets.
As Ashburn said, no salt. I live in a hot, humid climate. Why is it I can exercise for 6+ hours, come back 3-4 lbs underweight, and not cramp? It’s not because I’m taking in salt above and beyond what I get in Gatorade or normal food. My n=1 shows no correlation between salt and cramping. I used to get calf cramps all the time before I started riding. Now they are a thing of the past. Skip the voodoo steal-your-money snake oil.
I’ve read the exact same thing in studies, except they linked it more to neuromuscular connections, basically saying the athletes were not in good enough shape.
Eric
As Ashburn said, no salt.
Well, I’m not really say “no salt.” I salt my calorie drinks because it helps cut the sweetness and balances the flavor. I like my drinks about as salty as the Powerbar Endurance drink powder. I just don’t think there is a pressing need to go beyond that basic amount with tablets and such.
What finally convinced me was Noakes’ taking of blood samples at the finish line of IMs and ultra runs. If low sodium is a problem, that is a surefire way to find out exactly how bad it is and exactly how low it gets.
Serum electrolyte levels had no correlation with cramping (or even hydration). In fact, the serum sodium level tended to be higher (than pre-race) both for finishers who took sodium tablets and those who took no extra sodium. IOW – the body taps its own stores of sodium (in bones, etc.) so as to keep concentrations at sufficient levels.
I wonder if any of the vocal advocates of high sodium intake have ever had a blood sample taken at the end of a long workout during which they drank sufficient water?
I’ve read the exact same thing in studies, except they linked it more to neuromuscular connections, basically saying the athletes were not in good enough shape.
Eric
Noakes and others are pursuing the idea that the Golgi tendon/organ might be at the root of the problem. It somehow gives or gets mixed signals about whether the muscle is short or long or contracted or relaxed. This is a byproduct of high fatigue levels, although not always of course. We sometimes get leg cramps lying in bed for no apparent reason at all.
lots of interesting stuff to be read…
Ashburn,
Thanks again for your post and adding value around here! 
Also, funny how we can see research like this but yet a company like Hammer can market the exact opposite research and conclusions in order to sell millions of their Endurolytes, makes you think about what’s true and what’s memorex!?
Anyway, when I do take electrolytes- which I don’t normally, except in Hawaii and extreme TX heat- is Lava Salt or Themotabs. You only need one of those every now and then. I was riding with some people once and they were using the Endurolytes and they took like 30 of them in 4 hrs! 30?! Crazy…
Supplements, now that’s snake oil, imo. You ever really looked at the prices on some of that stuff!?
I was riding with some people once and they were using the Endurolytes and they took like 30 of them in 4 hrs! 30?! Crazy…
that is like voodoo majic
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD.ID=4045&OMI=10130,10047&AMI=10130#info2
For instance, if you are training a lot and take this supplement according to the usage guidelines, then it might set you back $500 or more a year! $500 a year!? Crazy, for something that probably does not even do anything…
Most of the time I bite my tongue here and not post anything, but this topic gets me fired up. Read some of these producers marketing materials. It’s a wonder we can even get out of bed in the morning without taking 30 pills a day of various “supplements”
My girlfriend is an accomplished masters runner and she just drinks water during training, doesn’t even know much or care about any of this sports drink stuff. But she does take in 3 gels in a marathon, one in a half-marathon, that’s her whole nutrition plan, nothing more. Also, she doesn’t even eat a lot of carbs, etc… She just eats what she wants, whenever. She kind of laughs at all these complicated “fueling strategies”.
Also, I’m reading Jim Brown’s autobiography, Out of Bounds, check out this passage…(page 6, hardback)
"… it required a certain mental position. Mine was simple: I didn’t want to be hanging out in the training room, screwing around with doctors. I didn’t want to be weak. I wanted to be a bad motherfucker.
To maintain that state of mind, I had to develop a process. During games, for instance, I almost never drank water. Part of it was simply old-school thinking: I believed water, even a little, might physically slow me down. But the jugular issue was mood -maintaining it. You drink water, you feel good. You feel satisfied. Just like you do after having sex. Very few men, after sex, want to get up and run wind sprints.
When I was on a football field, the last emotion I wanted was satisfaction. I’d look at water, not drinking it, as a test. Three hours of football. I will not deviate. I will not acquiesce. I am a warrior"
…a company like Hammer can market the exact opposite research and conclusions in order to sell millions of their Endurolytes, makes you think about what’s true …
What is Hammer’s research? Is there a link to it somewhere?
Hammer Endurolytes…the powder, not the capsuls.
tfun~