Need the help of you all to answer a few questions I have as I prepare for my “A” race in December. I will be running the Honolulu Marathon and my goal is 4 hours, but I have thought of trying to go 3:30 if I can get in some serious miles between now and then. A little background, 50 year old guy, run 2 marathons before, 1998 in 5 hours with ZERO training and again in 2011 at 4:31 with little training and a torn soleus muscle. I have run (NOT RACED) two 1/2 marathons this year, Carlsbad in 1:51 and Lo Jolla in a PR of 1:50 flat. I am pretty sure in my next 1/2 marathon the Americas Finest City on 8/18/13, I will be RACING this and hope to go 1:40. Currently I have never raced a 10K but have gone 47:30 in my training runs.
So I guess my questions are:
Is there a time in a 10K I need to get to to help me with a 3:30 marathon time?
I have read that a 1:40 1/2 marathon time equates to a possible 3:30 marathon time, does this sound about right?
3.I do 80% of my daily runs at 8am, about 2 hours after I get up and the other 20% after work at 7pm. I feel so much better running after work as my body is loose and feels great. So with that since all races usually start at 7am (Honolulu @ 5am) How do I get the same feeling I do during night runs when I do these early morning races? Do I have to wake up at midnight…any ideas how to get loose in a shorter time?
Nutrition during a 3:30-4:00 hour run? On the bike it is easy…what do you all use for long runs? My 1/2 marathon runs have been a gel every 4 miles and Gatorade…will this work for a full marathon?
Replacing running shoes…after how many miles?
Well I think that is it…feel free to answer 1 or many…just some new territory for me in racing long distances. Done lots of long hard RIDES but not running, so any help any of you can pass along regarding prepping for a running race will be much appreciated.
I use http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ for all of this kind of stuff. It says that if you want a 3:30 marathon, you should be running your 10k at a 7:12 pace instead of your current 7:39. You mentioned your 10k time wasn’t a race but how hard were you pushing in the training run?
The 1:40 HM is about spot on for a 3:30 full (3:30:27 to be exact)
Not sure what to recommend here besides waking up early. I’m usually up at around 3 or 4 am on race morning which provides me plenty of time to warm up and waken up. Try an easy 2 mile run the morning of.
Personal preference but I love the Clif Blocks. A little more substance than the gels. Other than that, just Gatorade and water. Maybe some pretzels around the half mark (people along the route are usually handing them out)
I believe the rule of thumb is 300-400 miles or every 6 months. I usually stick with mine for around 500.
Last thing I would say is 4:00 to 3:30 is a big jump. I would think about pacing yourself for a 3:45 and if you’re feeling good, pick it up later in the race.
I didn’t see how many MPW you are running now and plan to peak at. For a marathon I would want to be at 60-70 MPW before I used McMillan as a equivalent.
Thanks for all the info guys.
Currently my MPW are at 30-35 and going up weekly, hope to be at 65-70 by mid October.
Two more questions:
With marathon being my “A” race and most likely my last marathon, is doing a 1/2 marathon race for a PR just 4 weeks out considered to close?
Since most of us have race wheels and training wheels…do you guys have the same for shoes? I race in my training shoes (Brooks Glycerin 10). Just wondering if you have 2 pairs are they the same shoe or a racing only shoes for race day?
Thanks for all the info guys.
Currently my MPW are at 30-35 and going up weekly, hope to be at 65-70 by mid October.
Two more questions:
With marathon being my “A” race and most likely my last marathon, is doing a 1/2 marathon race for a PR just 4 weeks out considered to close?
Since most of us have race wheels and training wheels…do you guys have the same for shoes? I race in my training shoes (Brooks Glycerin 10). Just wondering if you have 2 pairs are they the same shoe or a racing only shoes for race day?
Thanks Everyone!!!
Goals at this point are really just pie in the sky. train for the shape you are in and set your race expectations much closer to the date of the race.( you still haven’t even run a 1:40 half you just think you could)
Use Mcmillan calculator to determine your training paces based on what you have doen not on what you hope to do.
I wouldn’t do a hard 12 any closer than 4 weeks …6 is better. As yo run be prepared to back off if you are not feeling good.
I train in light shoes. I race in the same model although a pair that is only 3 weeks old and still bright and shiny.
I train in the same shoes as yours. I race with race flats. They feel noticeably lighter. I feel a lot quicker and faster when running in them. Most of the fast guys I know (3 hour marathon or faster) race in race flats. All of the slower folks I know (4 hour marathon or slower) race and train in the same training shoes.
I would caution racing in race flats without spenid a bunch of miles in them first. They offer less cushion and support. This means that if you haven’t broken your body into them, you might increase your chances of getting injured in them.
Zoom just curious when picking a race Flat for the first time, is it just trial and error and hope the first pair works? If I decide to try a race flat is there a method based on your training shoe or just personal preference. Also how Many miles or hours to you run in your race flats prior to racing in them?
Picking race flats is like picking regular running shoes. There is an element of trial and error, but to minimize that, go to a running store and get some opinions and recommendations. It may not be for everyone.
I’ve been racing in racing flats for awhile, so there is less mystery to me than for someone like you. For me, my last run before a race is done in race flats. When I first started, I did one semi long run (~10 miles) and a few shorter runs in them before race day. It may take you longer.
I think I would be cautious with your choice of race shoe. I would be hesitant to race a marathon in a lighter shoe I have only run a 10-12 mile distance in. I train and race in mostly light weight shoes (7 oz. - 8 oz.) but I am also 125# female that wears a size 10 mens shoe. Even though I can put 60-70 MPW in a 8 oz. shoe, I can really feel the fatigue in my feet when I drop down to a 6-7 oz. shoe.
My first marathon I raced in a shoe that I had limited miles in. I finished the race but the deep blood blister on my left foot hampered my running for the next 3 months. Totally wasn’t worth it and It was just a dumb decision.
You’ve already received good answers to #1 & 2, but I’d like to offer some thoughts on 3, 4, & 5.
I would start doing some stretching or yoga as part of you workout regimen and see if you can gain some flexibility. This will make it much easier to loosen up in the morning before your runs. Yoga will also strengthen your core which will turn into more efficient running and lower stress as you up the volume & intensity. I also like to drink a redbull about 45 min. before the race start so that makes me pretty alert.
For nutrition, I like to take gels every 45 min and alternate water & gatorade at each aid station. I usually don’t tolerate too much on the fluid side so I take just enough to keep from crashing, usually just 1-2 oz per aid station. If it’s a hot day, I’ll use more gatorade or bring my own electrolyte drink and just take water.
I have run in several different kind of shoes and I like the lightweight training shoes the best. The trick is you have to train in them and build up your lower-leg muscles do support you for a 3:30-4:00 effort. If you run hills or do other footwork drills, you should have plenty of lower leg strength to use whatever shoes you choose. I also don’t buy into the myth that shoes wear out. I run on my mid-foot to fore foot and have some of the best runs in shoes that are 6 months to a year old. I usually only throw shoes away when they’re too dirty or have been washed too many times. I usually keep 1 dirty pair around for those bad weather days when I don’t want to get my new kicks all muddy.
Good luck on your race!
My first marathon was 3:38 (2011), and this year I set a 1/2 marathon PR of 1:31 (2/24/13). I plan to go 3 hrs in December as well.
Wow
More great stuff thanks everyone!! Another question, I know on the bike there are all sort of time saving things we can do to make us more aero thus faster, with wheels, aero helmet etc…
How about running? Any studies done for runners say hats vs visor vs headbands vs nothing? The kind of shorts we wear or the tops we wear? Socks vs no socks? Just curious and would love to read if anyone has any links to such studies.
Wow
MAnother question, I know on the bike there are all sort of time saving things we can do to make us more aero thus faster, with wheels, aero helmet etc…
How about running? Any studies done for runners say hats vs visor vs headbands vs nothing? The kind of shorts we wear or the tops we wear? Socks vs no socks? Just curious and would love to read if anyone has any links to such studies.
Use one of the many calculators out there to figure out what you pace/time you can do from current performance. A general rule is that as you double the distance, add 15 seconds per mile to your pace. So your 10K time will be 15sec/mile slower than your 5K, 1/2 marathon about 15-20sec/mile slower that 10K pace etc… This means you marathon pace is going to be 30-40 seconds per mile slower than your 10K pace.
Also find it works comparing open run vs. triathlon run - my sprint tri run is my 10K race pace.Stick with your 1/2 marathon gel strategy if you can stomach it wellStay with your current shoes, get a new pair about 4 weeks from the race and rotate them into your training. They’ll be “fresh” but just broken in. Wouldn’t consider a marathon in race flats unless you’re sub 3:00 and putting in 60+ miles a week.Marathon is a long run that uses up glycogen stores and breaks down muscle. You need to train your self to do the same, meaning long runs past the 90 minute mark that most of us have enough stored glycogen to fuel the effort. That’s why a half marathon can be fun, it’s over just around the time you run out of easy fuel. Advanced - as far as muscle fatigue, when you get comfortable enough on a 2 hour run, do the first 90 minutes 15-30 seconds slower that your goal marathon pace, and then the last 30 minutes 10-15 seconds faster than goal pace. This will fatigue your slow twitch fibers and then the faster pace will recruit some of your fast twitch. But you got to get the miles in first.Exception being Benoit in '84, only triathletes wear visors in races Not sure if it has to match the compression socks and fuel belt.
I’m simply chiming in on how long before you change shoes.
Anyone who echos the 4-500 needs to stop answering. That answers was driven by suppliers to increase product turnover. I’m a marathoner, I don’t do triathlons, so I run a LOT of miles. I can easily throw down 800+ on a pair of my nike freeruns. And i know many guys on the running forum I moderate who have mentioned numbers in the low 1000’s. Save yourself money, stop buying shoes so often. Be sensible though, if you notice a LOT of wear, then maybe change your shoes. But most shoes can go far past that low 4-500 number, especially if any decent amount of your training doesn’t occur on concrete.
Don’t worry about not feeling “as good” in the AM as you do in the PM. I think most people are like that. Something to do with circaddian rhythms. It won’t affect your race though. You’ll be too pumped up. Comparing a regular training run at 6:00am to your “A” race is apples and oranges. Be sensible. Wake up a 2-3 hrs before the race to make sure you can get in enough calories and do a brief warmup (5 mins of light jogging building to a couple race-pace strides). It’s also nearly impossible to get a good warmup right before the gun in a big marathon because they’ll jam you into crowded corrals 10-20 minutes (even more for races like NY, Boston and Chicago) before the gun. For a 3:30/4hr marathon, though, you can afford to ease into race pace in the first couple miles.
Anyone who echos the 4-500 needs to stop answering. That answers was driven by suppliers to increase product turnover.
It is amazing how manufacturers can come up with something to increase sales and in a few years it is considered a fact. I find my running shoes are just breaking in nicely around 400 miles and I only start thinking of replacing them around 800-1,000.
Anyone who echos the 4-500 needs to stop answering. That answers was driven by suppliers to increase product turnover.
It is amazing how manufacturers can come up with something to increase sales and in a few years it is considered a fact. I find my running shoes are just breaking in nicely around 400 miles and I only start thinking of replacing them around 800-1,000.
For a second I thought you were about to tell me I was completely wrong. Glad to see other people are starting to realize that the 4-500 thing is silly. The only reason I have to change around 750-800 is because I wear a bit hard near the big toe pad on my left foot (no matter how hard I try to not strike so hard there).
Not sure if it has to match the compression socks and fuel belt.