Okay ran at the gym today because of rain. I know harden up and all that good stuff. Well I hit the treadmill and did a 5 minute 45 second mile right of the bat.First time for me to ever go lower then 6 minutes, sped down a bit and by 19 minutes 30 seconds I had my 5k in by 31 minutes and 30 seconds I had 5 miles in. I had nothing left so I went did core then came back and did a 7:35 minute mile to warm down a bit. Today at work I will do 10k at around a 8 minute pace. Tommorow 10 miles outside weather permitting or inside on the dreadmill. I throw in sprints on my long runs. I have been averaging 40 miles a week for last 5-6 weeks. Is it just a question of pacing myself to break that 40 minute 10k ? Seems I can do it on the treadmill but outside ? My best tri 10k was 47 minutes and change. Any tricks little pointers I can try or will it come with time. If I keep doing threshhold runs ( My HR ave. was165 bpm and max Hr was 195 bpm today.) I think eventually I will be able to hold a better speed for the hole 10k. I am trying to use the treadmill also as a tool to get my feet used to the high turn over rate. Am I on the right track here to accomplish a sub 40 min. 10k ?
Aside from the not running in the rain thing, it sounds like you’re doing all the right things. I’d also be interested in what the running gurus have to say on any little changes that might put you into the sub-40 10k club - currently trying to get there myself and doing generally the same stuff as you (minus the dreadmill, and I guarantee I live in a way wetter place than you).
Seattle ? Been wetter in Jersey this year. Plus I just broke in a new pr sneakers last week.Dont want to muck’em up yet. Thought I might add that I am 40 years old also. I am guessing that would make any gains longer to see ?
If your max HR is 195, 165 should be fairly easy. I would imagine you should be averaging 180-185 for 10k? Pacing is important if you want to run your fastest possible 10k, whether or not that is below an arbitrary number is meaningless.
I went 39:30 last year just on running frequency. Very little if no speed @ all. Some tempo runs (I guess) - whatever that means.
Also, how accurate is that treadmil you ran on?
Fred.
Also, how accurate is that treadmil you ran on?
Exactly.
I travel a bit for work, and have used quite a few different treadmills. They are very seldom accurate.
Steve
I’ve had decent success duplicating efforts on the treadmill when going to the track. However, the treadmill speed is really a “perfect world” senario–no wind, flat as a pancake, even pacing–which is hard to achieve on an actual race day. All those seemingly small ups and downs, turns, headwinds and other things tend to slow you down a bit and make it hard to duplicate treadmill efforts on the road. They are great workouts though and “just staying on” the treadmill can sometimes push you to efforts you can’t acheive running alone.
Are you trying to do a sub-40 open or tri 10K? Either way I would say more running will help, but more cycling will also be necessary if you want to run a fast 10K off the bike. After years of doing a lot of speedwork, I started running more miles and broke all my PRs, doing little to no speed.
Chad
Treadmills are easier than normal running, so harden up and train outside.
I would up the miles/week before trying to get speed work in. Unless you have been consistent with 40/wk for a long time.
Figured pacing would play a big part. I have alot of work there to get down while running. Some tips on pacing would be helpful. Treadmill is at the gym but coincides with my polar watch on distance and speed pretty good. the treadmill seems to be 5 tenths of a mile faster. I actually ran 5.05 miles today to make up for that. Started doing tri’s and 5ks about three years ago at age 37 with seriuos training started about a year ago. In the beginning I barely broke 29 minutes on first 5k. Now my best 5k (official) on the street is 20 minutes 40 seconds. 3 years ago at 5’9" I was 212lbs now down to about 156-162lbs fkuctuates back and forth a bit. just added that in there in case it influences any traing or pacing answers or suggestions. Sorry for spelling but running back and forth chasing kids and making lunch for them
I went 39:30 last year just on running frequency. Very little if no speed @ all. Some tempo runs (I guess) - whatever that means.
Also, how accurate is that treadmil you ran on?
Fred.
I finally broke my 26-year-old 10K PR (dating back to HS) during a little tune-up race while training for my first IM this year… Still not quite sub-40, but I was close enough to see it on the finish clock just ahead and I’d be pretty confident I could do it now post-IM with just a little more specific 10K focus. Pacing was steady, +/- no more than a couple seconds per mile the whole way. I’d say in general, speed (say, 1-2 mile pace) is not the limiter for most of us in a 10K, it’s still more about endurance. For me anyway, it was just following the prevailing advice I’ve gleaned on here about trying to build volume through frequency. Just about zero speedwork, other than the occasional hard 1/2-mile, mile, or two, tossed in to break up an otherwise mundane 40-min run or something like that.
Both would be great open and tri 10k. I have been averaging 150 miles to 200 miles a week on the bike also for a few months. I also try to get at least 15 minutes of core in 4 days a week.
Figured pacing would play a big part. I have alot of work there to get down while running. Some tips on pacing would be helpful. Treadmill is at the gym but coincides with my polar watch on distance and speed pretty good. the treadmill seems to be 5 tenths of a mile faster. I actually ran 5.05 miles today to make up for that.
5/10 of a mile faster? As in, it shows a speed of 8.0 vs the 7.5 you are actually running? That’s a difference of 30 secs per mile. You’re correlating wrong if you ran an extra .05 miles to make up for it.
John
I vote you avoid the treadmill unless you can’t run outside. Also do not trust treadmill paces.
If you want to work on turn-over - run faster.
Run strides at mile pace. Run repeats at 10K pace. All as part of balanced run program.
Dave
So would threshold runs for 5 miles be considered endurance ? If I slowly increase threshhold run to 6.2 miles or more do you think that would be the fastest way to the sub 40 ?Seems I can go all day at the 8minute 8;30 minute mile pace now. I have been building volume up but also have been trying to do it smartly. I have over 1200 miles in this year running with two 50 mile weeks and about fifteen 40 mile weeks with the rest being around 30-35. I try to get a 9 to 12 miler in each week time permitting.
john,
m
My watch showed 4.95 miles so I went 5.05 miles on treadmill to equal out.
You bike volume is fine. I strive for about a 1/run to 1.5/ride balance of training time. If you don’t run every day, I would add in 15 minute runs on the days you don’t run and gradually up the time until you have a solid 6-8 hours of running per week. You will be surprised how fast you can run in open races and off the bike in a tri once you string together 12-16 weeks of 6-8 hour run weeks. As the season winds down, winter is a great time to focus on frequency of runs. Try to maintain bike volume while increasing that frequency and then you will be flying by next spring.
Chad
Had one 6 1/2 hr week alot of 5 1/2 hour weeks but most were in the high 3 1/2- 4 hour range. I will try to increase over fall and winter to see what happens. Pretty much am held to what the kids schedules are like. But might be putting the littlest anchor (lovingly) in preschool all day for 3 days a week as opposed to just 1/2 days so that should help.
Just my .02, but if I were you, I would find a local 5K and run it this weekend. That will give you your current fitness level. (My wife is also shooting to break 40, so I can tell you that to be in the ballpark you are looking at low 19’s for the 5K) Then use the mcmillan calculator to give you your training paces. I would then do:
1 tempo day a week (something like 2x15’ (2’)@tempo pace, 1x30’, 6xmile (1’)@tempo interval pace etc.
1 VO2 max day, something like 5x1200(3’)@speed workout pace from the chart. You want the efforts to be about 3-5 minutes.
1 long run as you have been doing
and then the other runs from 4-8 miles at the easy run pace. Notice that Mcmillan gives a range for the paces, I would aim for the middle of the range when starting out a speed session, and try to get faster through the workout.
It is not a bad idea to do your tempo runs on the track at first so you can really dial in the pace. I also have some measured miles on the loops I do frequently so I can get a reality check to the pace I am doing.
Doing a 5K in place of the tempo or VO2 max day is a decent option also as it gives you some experience in not over-cooking the first mile as well as a check-point of where your current fitness is. If your times move down, you would adjust your training paces accordingly.
Good luck! You have certainly come a long way.
THANKS!!! I have a race this weekend “war at the shore” with all the unwanted NBC hype. It is a 1200 m swim , 20 mile bike and 5 mile run. Then a sprint the weekend after. So I will try suggestions after ewek after that. As it is i went to rotor q rings a week before these two races, so I dont want to change anthing else up at this point. Will wait till races are over. I will look for a 5k after also. Hoping the 5k sprint will show fitness level a bit since I been doing a lot of 20 -30 mile bikes or spins with a 4-5 mile run after. But it seems I take 3-4 miles to get my “feet” under me.
It sounds like you have a log of workouts and that is easily your best tool for tracking progress. If I go back and look at my most successful tri seasons, they followed my two largest years of overall volume training. When I don’t race very fast even though I did everything right it helps me to go back and look at the last 3-6 months and add up the numbers. I usually find that I have strung together 3-4 months of below par volume and it was telling in my race performances.
Pretty much am held to what the kids schedules are like. But might be putting the littlest anchor
I can relate. I was up at 5:30 and did my ride/run/ride, made my wife a sandwich for lunch, made sure my 5-year old was awake and shooed them out of the house for the busstop. I have my 2 year old here all day while I try to work an on-line course. If I didn’t have a Vasa Ergometer, I would not be able to swim at all.
Chad