The question is, how do people feel about this? Is there a general position on running full marathons as part of training for full IM’s?
I’m torn on whether or not it’s more beneficial to build running speed through racing full marathon’s or half marathon’s?
Thanks!
If you truly RACE a full marathon you will likely need a significant amount of recovery time…
half
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That’s kinda of what my gut tells me. The recovery time for full marathons is so long, especially when you’re racing.
If this was the secret magic bullet workout, the pros would be doing it to fine tune for Kona…guess what they are NOT doing?
I guess it depends on how you are going to run the race. If you are going for a PB on your marathon, then that will be detrimental to your Tri training. If you are just going to “participate” in the marathon it might be less harmful on your tri training.
For me personally, the past two years I have really focused on a spring marathon (read: lots of running Jan-end of May) come triathlon season I have been playing catch up on the bike training.
BTW, if you want to build “running speed” racing a marathon is not the best way for that.
Ewan
There are a lot of questions to ask: Is some aspect of running one of your limiters to going faster?
If the answer is yes, then running should be a focus of training and you will likely gain from putting in a dedicated effort to learning to run faster, and add some durability to your legs. Do it early though so that you can take a break afterwards before starting into some of your builds prior to the race… that means multiple months before.
If you’re gunning for your first IM then for sure, do the marathon. Setting out from T2 to run further than you’ve ever run before will not be good for your confidence. Everyone leaving T2 is thinking ‘Holy shit, I have to run a marathon’. You’re at a severe disadvantage if you are not also thinking ‘A marathon is a long ways but I’ve done it before’. Doing the 42 during your buildup is a bad idea for recovery reasons but you want to do it, so running an early season race can be a good plan.
If you are likely not to train because of a miserable winter having an early spring marathon can also help with motivation.
If you’ve got the ability to run a moderately quick IM Marathon already as a standalone event (anything sub 3:30) and think you’re going to add speed to your IM marathon by training a faster standalone marathon you’re likely lying to yourself. Bike muscular endurance is probably more important, because if you can hop off the bike and run somewhere close to your best marathon you will be FAST! You are potentially sacrificing your ability to run to your potential by not focusing on the bike. Getting a bigger potential just means you’re giving away even more when you can’t do it.
Given that the recovery time will absolutely f-up your tri training and you are going to be at higher risk for mental burn-out and an IM and stand alone marathon have pretty much nothing in common save for the distance covered = not the greatest idea.
Heather Fuhr WON a few IMs before ever even thinking about doing a stand-alone marathon.
The only exception would be if you absolutely love running and it doesn’t take a whole lot out of you, then go for it.
If this was the secret magic bullet workout, the pros would be doing it to fine tune for Kona…guess what they are NOT doing?
Most pros do 3 IMs a year where they go hard 
not all pros do marathons in training but a lot will. (sandra wallenhorst does 4 h runs they all say its crazy but it seems to work …) I would not know many who would race it but IM pace would be normal (some ‘only’ do 36k runs).
There is a certain team, who does them on a track and if you look at the cervelo add on this side , quite a few from that team are on that some of them had not won an Im before they where on the team…
train for your distance
and lets face it even a 2.40 marathon is not that much speed, if the world record for an marathon is 2.03…(than 2.03 is not that fast compared to 12.30 for 5k
and that would count even MORE for an age grouper who cant get the mileage in for IM training because of work…its more important to be able to hold a certain speed 42.k than running 10k fast. what does it help you to run the first half in 1.30 and the second half in 2 hour .
Unless your second half dosnt fall apart, work on keeping the pace before focusing on speed .
If you can keep the second half already toghether focus more on speed
peter
and that would count even MORE for an age grouper who cant get the mileage in for IM training because of work…
If you can’t get in the run mileage, then a stand alone marathon is an even worse idea.
which then wouldnt make an IM a very good idea, in the first place, in my world if you dont even have the time for mileage
and maybe one should not worry too much about running training as you will walk the marathon anyway and put all the time into the bike, and do some hillwalking to prepare you for a fast walk.(dosnt work for everybody but you would be surprised to see how well it works with most )
p
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I’m using a fall marathon as a kick off to my IM training which will commence soon after the race. I am trying to run a fast marathon and have definately focused on running, but I don’t think it’s going to be detrimental to my training since it’s going to be winter soon and I do less structure for the off season anyway. I figured a fall marathon was a great way to end my season.
Yeah, I’m thinking about doing my full marathon as a mid-winter stay-in-shape type of event. The aim is going to be keep the aerobic in good shape for running, yet still get in lots of trainer miles on the bike. I think it’s early enough for the tri season where recovery time should be sufficient.
My primary race for next year is going to be IM Canada, which isn’t until Aug 29th. That is still giving me 8 months of very focused IM training. The goal will be that going into it, my running fitness is going to be extremely high.
As a side note, for us northerns (Chicago for me), it’s tough to get mad bike mileage during January, February and March. No matter how you slice it.
Everyone has their opinion, I think it is a BAD idea. Truly racing a marathon means about a month recovery and probably a two week taper, so for six weeks the only quality run you have will be the marathon. I have done it both ways, and the last few IMs have gone faster without a full marathon in the last 5 years . I like the idea of training as if you were going to run a full and then race a half.
I raced Houston marathon in early january one year and then recovered, trained for and successfully raced IMC later that same year. I live farther north than you (different country) and like you, getting quality bike training in over the winter is challenging.
For myself, I would not do a marathon later than the end of January if I was doing IMC at the end of August.
Good to know.
Just out of curiosity, though, why no later than Jan?
Depends what your IM goal is.
I ran Baltimore 3 weeks before IMFL and even though I planned on an easy 3:30 I ended up running a 3:14 BQ. Wasn’t planned, but felt good that day and just went with it. Did not have a great race at FL.
Then last year I did Boston in April, Eagleman HIM in June and IMLP in July. Had a better race than FL, but also went into the race with a completely different attitude and zero expectations.
Next year for LP I will not be running anything more than a half marathon (one I always do in March) in a race before the IM. And nothing longer than an oly. for a tri.
For me, Ironman is always my A race each year that I am doing one, so if I’m doing a marathon, I like to do it at a time of the year where I don’t think it risks interfering with my ironman prep.
So why the end of January as a cutoff for doing a marathon if I’m racing IMC at the end of August? Here is my reasoning -
I’m 54 years old, I need a full month to recover from a marathon (sure I do some training in that month but not like I would if I had not just done a marathon) that gets me to the end of Feb.
March, April and May of steady build up
June and July of peak volume (with recovery weeks mixed in of course)
August 4 weeks of taper (longer than some prefer but I first read about this type of taper in an article written by mark Allen and I have used it and like it - you can find the article easily if you google mark allen ironman taper)
As I said, I really focus on Ironman. If I did a marathon say at the end of March, you might think that 5 months should be lots of time to get ready for an Ironman. But the way I look at it, by the time I’ve done a 3 week taper for the marathon and then done a month of light recovery training after, I’ve lost a lot of March and April, which to me are important training months as I prepare for my bigger volume months in June and July.
Also, it is hard, particularly for newbies, to get thru the volume af training usually done for an ironman without developing injury issues. My own experience is that about 2 in 10 that set out develop injuries that either significantly affect their training or are bothering them on race day. Most of the injuries are running related leg and foot injuries. My own view is that you increase the risk of injury if you do a marathon during the 6 months before your ironman and then try to resume training too quickly because your IM is coming up.
Also, for people doing their first IM, my standard advice is, if you have not done a marathon at least 8 months before the IM, do not to worry about fitting in a marathon before the IM. I know people want the experience of having run a marathon before they tackle one as part of their IM, but the risks far outweigh the benefits as far as I am concerned. Also, for most people, the Ironman run involves some (or more than some) walking and is very different from a stand alone marathon.
Not a coach, not a scientist, just a guy who took up triathlon 10 years ago and has done 5 ironman races (one of those Kona), a bunch of marathons and really likes this stuff. Take my advice for whatever it is worth, I am sure there are others who disagree.
If this was the secret magic bullet workout, the pros would be doing it to fine tune for Kona…guess what they are NOT doing?
Slowtwitch challenges? 
I’m contemplating the very same thing.
Two things got me moving in the marathon direction. First, I have never done one and it bothers me. My pop did a few back in the day and my IM marathon time is still few minutes off his 3:23 PR. Second, I like the challenge of trying to make it that far with the thought that I might really fall of pace…badly. My friends tell me to be really scared which makes me curious if I could do it.
HOWEVER, I’m starting to worry about the post-race damage. Having to take a month off to recover might hurt my overall fitness progression. I’ve witnessed a number of friends do a winter/early spring marathon with no benefit to their HIM or IM run performance.