Runners- what's the etiquette for claiming a PB?

Triathlon Forum
61

Chip time Vs GPS time?

Just had a six week run focus to try and finally crack a sub 1’30 half marathon.

GPS has me at 1’29’42. Chip time was 1’31’13 at 21.44km. Speaking to others at the finish and Strava run grouping everyone else found it over by similar amounts.

Am I allowed to claim I’ve made the sub 90 club, and can go back to some cycling and swimming, or do I need to persevere and enter another event to get a 1’29 something chip time?

Claim what you want to claim for yourself.

Because, honestly, it doesn’t matter to other people.

If you’ve legitimately run a sub 1:30, you have.

Congrats.
X2
It is all your personal goals and results.

I finished marathons in all 50 states, but didn’t join the club and proved it officially. Same way with Marathon Maniacs.

The only thing I would say is “to thine own self be true”. Don’t lie to yourself regarding a clearly short course. I had a PR on my IMCoz swim, but I knew it wasn’t my “magical” swimming prowess, but a bad course. I throw those results that I couldn’t realisticall get close to replicating out of my PRs.

62

If it’s a race with timing, then whatever finish time I get according to my chip. I’ve found that running races tend to be a little longer according to my GPS than triathlon runs. When I did the Marine Corps Marathon with my wife a few years ago she was pretty upset that we ended up with something like 26.5 miles - that wasn’t all that bad for all the weaving you do when you aren’t out front. I always factor something like 1.01 miles on my GPS for ever mile of a race - if I finish a half marathon and I have less than 13.2 on my GPS it means I ran the tangents quite well. Whenever there is a curve in the road, I do my best to run the most direct route. This is much easier when roads are closed!

63

If you have had that much accuracy from commercially available gps devices, then you must have spent the past 15 years running in open fields without tree cover or tall buildings nearby at a relatively slow pace. GPS devices by their very nature have inaccuracies built into them. What is the verifiable real data that you have compared your gps distance to after each and every run in the past 15 years?

64

Molly Seidel’s GPS from the NYC Marathon has her running 26.54 miles. Her Strava adjusted her marathon time down to 2:22:39.

Did she run a 2:22 or a 2:24?

I don’t think anyone would say 2:22.

On the other hand when I did that race, lost GPS under mile 17 bridge… I cross finish line with 25.9 miles. 2:57 ----- sprint past the finish like to do 2:59 gps distance.

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I agree with those who say “You know if you are sub-90 and that’s who it matters to.” Congrats.

To those who say “Chip time rules”, let me change your mind.

Back in 2015, I went on a white-whale crusade to break 20 for 5K. I ran between 20:01 and 20:10 more times than I could count. All “PB” courses…flat and fast.

Then, one day, I ran 18:53. Boom!

Problem: My GPS watch had the course at 2.98 miles. The results are still searchable and posted on the interweb.

In the next few weeks, I ran 19:53 and 19:49. Again, flat and fast courses.

So, is my 5K PB 19:49 or 18:53?

was it a certified course? If so it’s 18:53. If it’s a 5k charity run then…I personally would go by GPS. But if it’s a certified course - I don’t care if the GPS says any extra…

It was a charity Jingle Bell Run.

My reaction was twofold:
That day, I wish I had paid closer attention to the distance on my GPS because I would have run right through the finish until my watch hit 5K.Despite knowing with 100% certainty I would have been 19:30-19:40 that day, I didn’t consider I had broken 20 until I ran the legit 19:53.

It at least let you know what your potential was.

I looked back at the only 5000 I did on the track. 16:55 which is still my PR. But my gps had it as 3.15 hahahaha

I am not backing that out of course haha

66

GPS wins. I don’t care what others think, I know that I have covered x distance in y time, verifiable by actual real data. End.

It’s a race! The official chip time is your time.

You can get all the Strava kudos you want but, if you are running as a registered entrant in a race, then your official race time is your time. Otherwise just do unofficial time trials and claim those as your PRs. Why bother to register in a race to prove it if you are going to disregard your race result.

67

However what if that comes up short on the GPS!

I’m “not claiming” my current online PB Half for this reason… I think the course was ~0.1-0.2 short and while the time was under my previous best by nearly 2 minutes I should have still ended up with a best, I feel like it sets me up for a time I’ll really struggle to match again :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t ever count a PB purely on GPS, however, as on any course I trust my GPS always comes higher (whether it’s me failing with tangents or just slight GPS errors, it seems a half is consistently 13.2-13.3 and a Full is 26.4-26.6 for my GPS measurements over the years - all Garmin devices with varying models).

68

I typically go with my GPS time. Ive seen some strange results from chip times that make me leery of them.

For example I finished a bike section of a tri with an average speed of 29.7mph and the guy that finished ahead of me was clocked doing 31.3mph.

Now Im a pretty strong rider but not a chance in hell I did 29.7 for the whole race.

My Garmin had me at 23.4mph which is consistent with my other races of similar distance. I don’t always start and stop my watch perfectly going in and out of transition but its a lot more realistic then 29.7.

Ive similarly seen problems with swims so not I just rely on my Garmin.

69

Triathlons are tricky to claim a PB - particularly for Ironman. The reason is that they set the distances to 180km, regardless of whether or not the course is actually 180km. Then when they do the speed calcs, it distorts some of the segments.

But for a stand alone run on a certified course - PB is the chip time.

70

I typically go with my GPS time. Ive seen some strange results from chip times that make me leery of them.

For example I finished a bike section of a tri with an average speed of 29.7mph and the guy that finished ahead of me was clocked doing 31.3mph.

Now Im a pretty strong rider but not a chance in hell I did 29.7 for the whole race.

My Garmin had me at 23.4mph which is consistent with my other races of similar distance. I don’t always start and stop my watch perfectly going in and out of transition but its a lot more realistic then 29.7.

Ive similarly seen problems with swims so not I just rely on my Garmin.

I think Triathlon courses will vary a bit, but in running races the course has to be certified. If a marathon course is short, it makes the news and any records set don’t count. Even your local 5k is typically a USATF certified course.

When it comes to running, actual official race times is the only thing I would consider as a PR.

71

You can keep preaching. No ones listening.

Sorry dude.

72

It occurs to me that maybe “etiquette” in the OP isn’t the right word; or perhaps not the ONLY word

“The rules indicating the proper and polite way to behave”

I think we’re all also arguing/discussing “protocol”

“A system of rules that explain the correct conduct and procedures to be followed in formal situations”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/etiquette
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/protocol

Personally, my “etiquette” is to keep it to myself, unless asked, whereupon my “protocol” is that I go by what’s in the race results, online, by chip time, unless it’s one of my own Virtual Comps, which have no sort of legitimacy at all, and are all regarded as works of fiction, anyway
.

73

So you’re telling me I didn’t run a 14:28 opening 5k in 2019 at the Chicago marathon?!

Lol like I said earlier, my 1:35 800m PB comes from Chicago.

I’m in the camp that OP should do what they’re comfortable with but I go with whatever time I get from a race. I use my GPS to look for patterns. Did everyone get extra distance or short distance. But I don’t do anything with that other than maybe think I might be a little faster if a course might have been long but I’m not gonna be the one to make that change or go around saying I’m faster than I am. I’ll just race again.

This whole conversation is why I like triathlon. Feel like the distances are never what they should be but you can see how you compare to the field & your AG & that tells you what kind of fitness you have.

74

You can keep preaching. No ones listening.

Sorry dude.

Since I see that your comment is a reply to me, I’ll respond with…

First, I’m not preaching anything. I’m simply stating my point of view and providing reasons on why I have that view.

Second, by other responses in this thread, I’m not the only one with that point of view, so I don’t quite get your snarky comment.

75

Do you have any confidence at all in the measurement of the course? For example, some races have been conducted for years on the same course and have undergone a process of distance certification. If it was short/long on race day, then many runners would know. Other races…it’s their first year, and they measured it with a car odometer.

76

You can keep preaching. No ones listening.

Sorry dude.

Since I see that your comment is a reply to me, I’ll respond with…

First, I’m not preaching anything. I’m simply stating my point of view and providing reasons on why I have that view.

Second, by other responses in this thread, I’m not the only one with that point of view, so I don’t quite get your snarky comment.

You replied to my comment regarding an example where I was clocked at doing 29.7mph in a race when I know damn well I didn’t. I looked and saw you had replied to numerous post already and you were snarky in some of them, telling people they could keep their kudos. Well get what you give kid. And when respond to multiple people trying to explain the same thing over and over, yeah its preachy.

I don’t care what the rule says. If I know a time isn’t accurate Im not going to claim it or else I’d be going around telling everyone I averaged 29.7mph in a race and look like an asshole. In that particular race everyones swim time was ridiculously slow and the bike ridiculously fast across the board. There was clearly a mistake that effected everyone fortunately it doesn’t seem to have effected overall results. I have know idea how this translates to a running only race other than to say i believe it is possible for something similar to transpire.

In other words a mistake that either benefits everyones time or hurts it but not impacting results. Obviously I have to accept chip time in context of the event but I get to choose moving forward to ignore the result in the context of my own personal understanding of what my PR is or isn’t. Do I just lie to myself and say well this is my PR because the timing people screwed up or vise versa?

On technical level your correct but I know the time is wrong so I’ll go with what by what I know to be true.

77

You can keep preaching. No ones listening.

Sorry dude.

Since I see that your comment is a reply to me, I’ll respond with…

First, I’m not preaching anything. I’m simply stating my point of view and providing reasons on why I have that view.

Second, by other responses in this thread, I’m not the only one with that point of view, so I don’t quite get your snarky comment.

You replied to my comment regarding an example where I was clocked at doing 29.7mph in a race when I know damn well I didn’t. I looked and saw you had replied to numerous post already and you were snarky in some of them, telling people they could keep their kudos. Well get what you give kid. And when respond to multiple people trying to explain the same thing over and over, yeah its preachy.

I don’t care what the rule says. If I know a time isn’t accurate Im not going to claim it or else I’d be going around telling everyone I averaged 29.7mph in a race and look like an asshole. In that particular race everyones swim time was ridiculously slow and the bike ridiculously fast across the board. There was clearly a mistake that effected everyone fortunately it doesn’t seem to have effected overall results. I have know idea how this translates to a running only race other than to say i believe it is possible for something similar to transpire.

In other words a mistake that either benefits everyones time or hurts it but not impacting results. Obviously I have to accept chip time in context of the event but I get to choose moving forward to ignore the result in the context of my own personal understanding of what my PR is or isn’t. Do I just lie to myself and say well this is my PR because the timing people screwed up or vise versa?

On technical level your correct but I know the time is wrong so I’ll go with what by what I know to be true.

The thread is about running PRs, so I think your example of your bike split isn’t applicable. I did make the point that Tri courses vary whereas running road race courses are typically USATF certified.

I do agree with your point on my tone. I do see that my initial comment was a bit harsh to the person I replied to and maybe I am being a bit forceful in stating my opinions. I do apologize for all that.

I think my point of view comes from the fact that I come from a running background, prior to Strava and prior the GPS for that matter, so I’ve always considered official race times as the be all and end all.

I guess the reality of all this is that people can claim whichever they want and others will acknowledge that claim whichever way they want.

78

Chip time Vs GPS time?

Just had a six week run focus to try and finally crack a sub 1’30 half marathon.

GPS has me at 1’29’42. Chip time was 1’31’13 at 21.44km. Speaking to others at the finish and Strava run grouping everyone else found it over by similar amounts.

Am I allowed to claim I’ve made the sub 90 club, and can go back to some cycling and swimming, or do I need to persevere and enter another event to get a 1’29 something chip time?

Course distances should be a lot more accurate than GPS distances. I didn’t realize this until I was on a Pace Team last year for a big road race.

The manager of the team told us that the GPS would be off because of interference from buildings, etc. and to plan on being several seconds a mile faster than what the GPS said and then to get mile splits at the mile markers and to adjust accordingly.

Well, I got my GPS time for my first mile then I saw the mile marker 25 yards off. There was a 7 second difference. I didn’t know if I should trust the GPS or the mile marker. At mile two I experienced the same thing. I got my GPS mile and the course mile marker was still 25 yards off. I decided to split the difference and to come in ahead of my GPS splits but after the mile splits.

When I got to the end of the race my GPS distance was long by a few 10th of a mile. That was exactly what the team manager, who had paced dozens of races all over the country, told us would happen. I was a minute over the time I was set to pace for so I felt stupid for not running to the mile markers and trusting my GPS.

Luckily they didn’t kick me off the team for making a common rookie mistake and I will get a second chance to pace at the even this coming February. This time I will trust the mile markers and I will hit my target time.

Most races will have a certified courses/distances. Trust the distance. So your certified time is 1:31:13. That is your PB for that course but if you had done the same effort on a course that started at a higher elevation than it finished, or there had been cooler temperatures, a slight tail wind, fewer hills, fewer turns etc. you would have had a faster time. So…time is all relative.

Because time is all relative I use the GPS distance for time trials and virtual races when I set up my own course and run them solo. If I break a record in the time trial or virtual race I count it. You can do the same. If Strava gave you a sub 1:30:00 half marathon welcome to the Sub 90 club. If you do the same race next year and it measures another .1 or .2 longer than you got this year and run 1:31:21 but get a 1:29:35 Strava time don’t get overly fixated on the GPS distance being different than the certified distance or different from the reading you got on the same course the previous year. Just enjoy a new Strava PB and try again for a new certified PB.

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On technical level your correct but I know the time is wrong so I’ll go with what by what I know to be true.

*You’re

Also, commas might help
.

80

My GPS almost always measures short, so I never use that time for anything other than personal information. It you do a race and get a time, and the course is not suspect(but using everyone else times) then that is your time, or if fast, you’re PB. I often run with others all with GPS, and none of us will have the exact same distance. A race course is supposed to be measured by tangents, so all you folks getting long measurements better learn how to run them if you want faster times that sort of line up with your watches.

And who are these people running their best time in workouts? Go to a race, race the race, and that is your time. No one should be getting faster times in anything other than the races, and your watch time in the races is irrelevant. Talking about running only here, triathlons, swimming and cycling are different animals all together. A history of mis measured or not even measured courses has led to nothing really to bank on, or look back on for comparisons…