Ok…I’ve been toying with the idea of upping my run mileage a good bit and I was wondering what if there was any way of ballparking what kind of improvements I could expect from increasing volume (and perhaps decreasing weight).
I currently weigh 195lbs and I run about 43-44 minutes for a flat 10k off the bike. I’ve done a standalone half mary in 1:32 and a 1/2 IM run split of 1:42. My peak run training mileage is 15-20 miles per week.
Any ideas/guesses what sort of return on investment I might get if I upped my mileage to 30-35+ miles/week (without getting injured) and dropped to around 180lbs? I’m trying to figure out where to spend my training hours.
From the sound of things you have barely scratched the surface of your running talent…15 to 20 miles a week is just maintenance mileage.
If you get to 30-40 or better still 40-50 miles a week you should see significant improvements in your times. I was running 44 minutes off the same mileage and got to sub 40 minutes by running 40-50 miles for just a month.
No two people are the same but I’d guess you have a lot of room to improve. the weight loss will help a lot too.
someone posted a rule of thumb the other day that a pound of fat was worth about 2 secs/mile. How true this is, I have no idea. I would love to be less than 200 lbs but at 6’7" it’s really difficult. As far as building volume, it’s better to build volume through frequency rather than duration.
Ok…I’ve been toying with the idea of upping my run mileage a good bit and I was wondering what if there was any way of ballparking what kind of improvements I could expect from increasing volume (and perhaps decreasing weight).
I currently weigh 195lbs and I run about 43-44 minutes for a flat 10k off the bike. I’ve done a standalone half mary in 1:32 and a 1/2 IM run split of 1:42. My peak run training mileage is 15-20 miles per week.
Any ideas/guesses what sort of return on investment I might get if I upped my mileage to 30-35+ miles/week (without getting injured) and dropped to around 180lbs? I’m trying to figure out where to spend my training hours.
ot
Many years ago, I went from 189 (in May) to 172 (in September). My time over 3.5 miles dropped from 22:45 to 20:24 (:40/mile). Mileage was something like 20-30mpw. Drop the weight, and the times will drop.
someone posted a rule of thumb the other day that a pound of fat was worth about 2 secs/mile. How true this is, I have no idea. I would love to be less than 200 lbs but at 6’7" it’s really difficult. As far as building volume, it’s better to build volume through frequency rather than duration.
I have read that a few times about fat loss and the effect on run times.
For years I was inconsistent with running. I would go weeks without running more than a couple of times. When I did run it would usually be of somewhat high intensity and very low mileage (about 30 km/week). As a result of the intensity I would usually burn out and never reach my potential. I set a 10k PB of 33’23" but results would fluctuate greatly.
On February 1st I made a decision to focus solely on running to see how much I could improve. Here is some information that might be of interest: I have run every day since Feb 1st with most days being 12-14 km. Almost all the runs were steady state and anaerobic threshold. For the first month I was drained and tired many days but I headed out the door regardless. My body has gradually adapted and now the 90km weeks include a temp/tt effort and intervals of some kind. My body has now adapted to this schedule and I am now gradually adding the cycling and swimming back into the weeks schedule. I have a route that I run which sortof use for testing my progress. On Feb 1st I was running the route in 57’30" for a semi-hard effort. Yesterday I ran it in a semi-hard effort in 50’31". This is telling me that the consistency and frequency of running is really paying off. What makes me even more pleased than the improvement in the time is that the effort is not as taxing. I immediately recover rather than feeling the need to flake out on the sofa. Note - when I was running 57’30" almost 2 months ago I was not in great run shape - although I was fit. 2 months ago I weighed in at 192 lbs. I had too much fat on me. Now I am 179 lbs. I believe my ideal weight is about 167 lbs for racing - so I am looking forward to getting faster from loosing more weight.
It is very difficult to estimate how much faster you will get from more running but I thought I would share my experiences in case it helps you. I find it hard to improve in 3 sports at once. By focusing on running and commiting yourself to running every day I am guessing you will see similar improvement.
someone posted a rule of thumb the other day that a pound of fat was worth about 2 secs/mile. How true this is, I have no idea. I would love to be less than 200 lbs but at 6’7" it’s really difficult. As far as building volume, it’s better to build volume through frequency rather than duration.
As I understand it, as long as you’re not getting rid of essentials such as run-specific muscles, your running speed ought to improve in very close proportion to your weight.
Thus, a 180 lb athlete who runs 6 mins/ml would expect to improve by 360/180 = 2 secs per mile, so your rule appears valid. It’s more than 2 secs/ml for slower or lighter runners (a 120 lb runner running 8 mins/ml would improve 4 secs/ml for each pound lost).
However, weight on your feet is far more important, apparently about 5 times as much as bodyweight, so taking 3.2 oz off each shoe would buy the above 180 lb athlete the same 2 secs/ml. Of course he’d get injured faster in lighter shoes, but that’s another issue.
My personal experience with weight loss started before tris were invented. I swam in college at around 190 lbs at 6 ft 1 in. After college I was bike racing then started running during the 76-80 running boom. I got down to 162 lbs and had gone from low 40s in the 10k to mid 34s. Every time I dropped 5lbs I PRed my 10 k so I was very motivated to lose more. Not too sure 162 was all that healthy for me, but my half case abs went down to a six pack for sure.
I think there are a couple good things abought being light and running. 1. is each mile has less orthopedic stress(less weight) and 2. the cardiovascular system is pushing a smaller package. On the down side high milage running seems to be associated with frequent colds. I was always on the verge of getting sick. Not sure if it was the wt loss or the 50-70 mile weeks that did that.
When I was just stand alone cycling I seemed to weigh about 172 ish and triathloned at 175 ish. As soon as I quit doing 20 hr weeks and went to less than 10 hrs a week my weight went back to 190ish. Now I just wish I could see 170 again. So I think everyone has a range to keep the weight in if it gets too low that may be a problem. Also watch out for eating disorders, I may have had one then. G
By all means try it and find out. If you are 15 pounds too heavy and average less than 20 mpw, then increasing mileage and losing weight will help dramtically: It could easily mean 30 sec. per mile (for a 1:26 half marathon) Sixty sec.per mile sounds ambitious, but is entirely possible, if you are consistent for a few months (or a couple years) and don’t get injured. 15 more miles a week is only an increase of 2.5 hours, at most … I would say its tough for big guys to run much faster than 6 minute miles, though.
It’s been a while since I lost significant weight and triathlon has led to a decease in my running mileage (from 40+ mpw at its peak to about 30 now) but I did make big gains a couple years ago: I was 160 lbs, averaged 30 mpw (50 mpw was my biggest) and ran a 3:20 marathon; a year later I was down to 150 at 45 mpw (60 for a big week) and ran a 3:04.
Thanks guys. What I guess I’m getting at is where I should spend my time if I have an extra 2-2.5hrs/week. Right now I’ve been told I only do “maintenance” miles in all the disciplines (full time job, young kids, etc. - I’m not complaining tho - things are great!) so I’m wondering where I’ll see the biggest improvement if I use all that ‘extra’ time on one discipline.
I think I could gain 3-4 minutes on an Oly swim (from 27 to 23-24?). I think I could gain 1-2 minutes for an Oly bike (1:02 to 1:00?). I wasn’t sure what I could gain running. Nobody has really thrown out a number but maybe 4-5 minutes for a 10k (38-40min?)? In some ways running would be the easiest thing to add to as it just requires me to throw on some shoes and go.
The short answer to this is–increased volume helps increasingly as you compete in longer races–and it will probably cause you to lose weight.
Long answer to follow. In 2002 I ran a Thanksgiving Day 5K in 15:56 on about 20 miles per week with twice a week speedwork. One year later I did the same race in 15:53 on about 40 miles per week with no speed work. I haven’t run a 5K recently to see how fast I would be at 60 miles a week. Basically in short events you can get away with low miles. You won’t be as fast as you could with more miles, but the difference is less noticeable Since I don’t know of any 15 minute long triathlons then you need to become more aerobically efficient.
The biggest difference I have seen came in longer races. I went from 1:18 to 1:13 in an open half marathon and from 1:35 to 1:24 in a half-ironman split. Bike volume also increased, so it was not only run volume that brought on the change. As your body becomes a more efficient via higher volume aerobic training then you become more efficient at faster speeds and your powers of recovery increase to the point that you will be amazed at what you can do on back to back days, i.e. I once ran 15 miles one day and then 24 the next and felt great for the 24-mile run.
Losing weight will help more than almost anything you could possible do. It you want to find out what it would be like to run at 12 pounds lighter, then grab a 12-pound weight and put it in a backpack. Run with it for a while on a normal running route and then take it off. You’ll feel like Superman.
Your last tip is a good one, I often run to & from work during the summer, round trip 20k, with my pack with my work clothes on my back. When I run w/o the pack, what a difference. I have noticed the same thing (now) when running with my jogging stroller - runs w/o pushing the stroller seem sooooo easy & fast.