I wanted to get some insight on running gait/shoes. I posted some video here running barefoot, and then Nike Pegasus vs. Nike Structure. I am coming off some pretty bad overuse injuries from 2 years ago…I have been running pain free now for about 6 months and consistently running 20 miles per week (2,4,2,4,off,2,6) with strides at 5k pace/effort 2 to 3 times per week. I am pain freel feeling durable feel and I am ready to start training again…My plan to is get my running back on track (get rid of the marathon shuffle) and build back up to 40 miles per week (6days/week 3-2-1 ratio) at 5 to 10 % per week (and keep swimming 3x’s). I think I am a fairly neutral runner and have ran in neutral shoes (addias addistar 2 years ago, and then Nike Pegasus for the last year). However, I tried some Nike structures (stability) on and they felt really good. It felt like it was easier to walk and run in them…I really felt like it was easier to midfoot strike and open up my stride more…I am not sure if it is the firmness I like relative to the Pegasus or the stability…So I posted some video analysis on here for some advise (on running and shoes)…for the experts (o.k. I will listen to anyone who feels like posting, but I know who the experts are :))…why do the sturcures feel better and are they a shoe I should be wearing based on the video/gate???..
I also figured it would be some good video analysis to compare a fairly neutral runner (I think) with stability vs. neutral shoes…maybe a some running form discussion…that always seems to bring out the posters
To my eye, your stride gait seems pretty neutral, pronation-wise. I see no need to go to a shoe like the structure, perhaps just a more firm neutral trainer? The Pegs are pretty squishy.
Couldn’t run your films through my software analysis (not a stable camera, only filmed at 30 fps, etc.) but you have nothing glaring wrong with your gait from what you posted. If you like the Nike structures, run in them - no harm. You do seem to have a slightly slow cadence, perhaps trying to hard to run with good form for the camera, who knows. Without super slow mo, most everyone on a treadmill past 6 mph appears to be neutral though because the moving belt quickly pulls the foot back at initial stance phase and it is difficult to see the rate of pronation.
Couldn’t run your films through my software analysis (not a stable camera, only filmed at 30 fps, etc.) but you have nothing glaring wrong with your gait from what you posted. If you like the Nike structures, run in them - no harm. You do seem to have a slightly slow cadence, perhaps trying to hard to run with good form for the camera, who knows. Without super slow mo, most everyone on a treadmill past 6 mph appears to be neutral though because the moving belt quickly pulls the foot back at initial stance phase and it is difficult to see the rate of pronation.
Best of luck for a good season.
Thanks for the imput…I actually was turning over a bit slow…probably because I was only at 6.5 on the Treadmill also…I did this after a run, and had already cooled down and was a little tight…so I was keeping it slow, especially while barefoot, but trying to keep my stride length somewhat normal…
XCRunner…thanks for the input as well…either way I am going to switch from the pegasus to something a little more firm…I will try the above…
On a side note…Hypothetically, if I were to run in more a stability shoe, what do you think would happen over time (biomechanically)…would having the support relax my foot/ankles…and allow for more pronation overtime, or would it overcorrect the other way an force more suppination (doriflexed) and less pronation (underpronation during push-off)
Sometimes I have felt the tendancy to underpronate…I have normal arch height, so I was wondering if needed the stability/support to get greater contact midfoot…Does any of this make sense? But again…this could just be the squishyness of the pegasus…I am talking about running only here…
At work (I teach and am on my feet all day)…I wear some Pumas (minimalist)…kind of like your basic chuck taylor look…Flat bottom (no heal lift, ect…) and lower extremities feel great…(would never run in them though)
Last questions, but I am curious about lower extremity function and footwear…sometimes what I think is/will happen is contraditory to actual body mechanics
Will depend on speed of course. 240 fps is about the min I like to see for subtle issues (if any) in a seasoned runner. 1000 fps is great, but need lots of light and a small video unless a VERY expensive camera.
As for faster than 1/30 sec, not likely to “correct” that fast, but hard to see detail since going frame by frame at that speed things are now “blurry” with motion artifact and you have to guess too much. Of course, I did gait analysis for years just eyeballing as well
What type of overuse injuries and were they on your right side?
Soleus Left Leg (inside low calf) and then right leg Patella tendanitis…(right knee was first)…I went from very little background in endurance sports…to doing 3 HIM, 2IM, 1 Marathon, and a boat load of 1/2 mary’s, OLY’s and Sprints…
I thougth after 6 months to a year of training I would be able to train 15 to 20 hours per week…I built to a big week before my last IM of 350 miles riding 25k swimming and 68 miles of running over 8 days for my big week!..I know dumb…I think because I was pretty athletic and durable…(no injuries from College football, etc), I could pull this off and it would somehow equate to fast KQ time…Talk about running slow…I went from a 11 flat 100m guy to running a bunch of junk miles at 9:00 to 10:00 min pace by the end of it…and could do a single leg lunge…
“…On a side note…Hypothetically, if I were to run in more a stability shoe, what do you think would happen over time (biomechanically)…would having the support relax my foot/ankles…and allow for more pronation overtime, or would it overcorrect the other way an force more suppination (doriflexed) and less pronation (underpronation during push-off) …”
If you think running (say, 5-7 hours/week) is going to “weaken” your foot in some stability shoe (take your pick) vs. the 8 hours standing you mentioned in your minimal Pumas and then daily life … The answer is NO.
Do I think you need a stability shoe? The answer is NO as well. You are also confusing what happens at push off where the foot re-supinates to make itself a more rigid lever after pronating to adapt to terrain (gross oversimplication in terms).
As was mentioned, what were your overuse injuries you mentioned? Most are simply training errors (too much, too soon, etc.) in runners, not from a faulty pair of shoes …
"Do I think you need a stability shoe? The answer is NO as well. You are also confusing what happens at push off where the foot re-supinates to make itself a more rigid lever after pronating to adapt to terrain (gross oversimplication in terms). "
This is why I am asking someone who knows
thanks again for all the help…I am going to stay with neutral shoes (might go a little firmer…because it feels better to me at faster paces and usually lighter ect…)
A lot of truth to your statement about overtraining…It is kind of funny how the shoes I was wearing was pretty insignificant while I wasn’t building and/or thinking about ramping up…then as soon as I was ready to go…I probably freaked out a little bit…just because of the injuries before that had absolutely nothing to do with my shoes…
Stress is always easier to see in other people :)…
What type of overuse injuries and were they on your right side?
Soleus Left Leg (inside low calf) and then right leg Patella tendanitis…(right knee was first)…I went from very little background in endurance sports…to doing 3 HIM, 2IM, 1 Marathon, and a boat load of 1/2 mary’s, OLY’s and Sprints…
It’s pretty subtle but what you described is just what I suspected. I think you very slightly compensate for a “weaker” left leg by taking more load on your right side. The left look ever so slightly less stable and picks up the initial injury. Then the stronger right side gets the worst of it by picking up the additional load. Your running form looks pretty good and what I am noticing is very minor. When under extreme load (like 2 years ago) it may be enough to cause injury.
The best advice has already been given by rroof. You don’t need stability shoes just build your milage slowly.
You also don’t need to train anywhere near 20 hours a week. If your run pace slow because of fatigue then you are doing something wrong.
I agree that you can use neutral shoes, but from the rearview barefoot shot it appears that you might be somewhat flatfooted so you should consider arch support. In the last video you have very high elbows indicating some tension, maybe at your low back. Try to relax your arms so that your elbow is hanging at your side rather than behind you.
