So I ended up buying a new Concept2 rower with the PM3. Very nice quality!
So I did my first ever rowing workout tonight, just a short one to try it. I had the damper set at 4. I watched a lot of the youtube videos on proper rowing technique. Tried to keep a strong upright position, reach forward, then tried to keep my arms straight while pushing with the legs until they locked, then finished with the arms. Took me around 21 minutes to do 5km.
OK, the issue is, I don’t think I felt much in the legs, yet I know that is where I’m supposed to feel it most, no? I did find my glutes getting a bit sore, but couldn’t really tell if it was a strain type of sore, or discomfort from the seat. Is that where you are supposed to feel it most, in the glutes? I felt nothing at all in my quads. When I would push back with my legs, keeping my arms straight, it really felt like there was no resistance until just before they locked, and then of course my arms were used for the rest…
Can you film yourself (from the side)? The glute tightness might be from trying to keep good posture through the stroke. You should have some back movement as well, not a huge amount: say 1 o clock at the catch and 11 o clock at the finish. If your legs are used to endurance work then that might be why you didn’t feel it.
Re the machine: you say the damper is set to 4 but what is the actual drag factor you are rowing on? This can make a big difference to how it feels.
Bit high from what I remember (105-110?), but not egregiously.
Like swim videos, setting up a camera is probably the best thing you can do. Either you’ll see the difference yourself immediately, or someone here will.
My guess would be that you’re opening your back a little bit at the catch, rather than really engaging your legs.
Check out this quick video that my coxswain in college put together-- particularly the part detailing the leg drive (around 0:23). The pull-up bar analogy always resonated well with me… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXnKyJdA01w
One other thing that might help would be some drill work that forces you focus on different components of the stroke-- start legs only, then add the back, then bring in the arms. A few strokes of legs only rowing should at least give you a taste of what you want to feel in your quads.
The back should tilt forward after the finish - following as the hands go past the knees… As the body moves forward, and at the catch, the upper body remains tilted forward, and as you take the catch the upper body remains locked in that position. I just found this gif that shows it quite well…
Had the concept 2 for 3 yrs, and I have never felt fatigue anywhere except my arms and back.
You’re not doing it right then…
Having come from a rowing background, I learned the true meaning of suffering before I turned 17. 167lbs at the time, pulling a 6:10 2k left me completely shattered… That was significantly harder than a 4:40 mile.
The back should tilt forward after the finish - following as the hands go past the knees… As the body moves forward, and at the catch, the upper body remains tilted forward, and as you take the catch the upper body remains locked in that position. I just found this gif that shows it quite well…
With the upper body rigid at the catch, you can drive those legs down as fast as you can. Then move (tilt) the back back. Then hands.
Well said. Rowing is a lot like swimming in the sense that it takes excellent technique to go really fast. But you’re on an erg, not the Charles River.
Don’t move your arms/back at all until you’ve driven your knees down.
+1 on locking the upper body in the 11 o-clock position (viewed from the left). If you are not used to it it’s easy to push on the legs without transferring the power onto chain by tilting over further. We called that “bum shoving”. A strong core is essential and important to keep your back healthy.
You can do nice drills to practice the different phases of the rowing stroke, roughly:
Legs only: only push back with the legs, keeping upper body locked in the 11 o-clock position. Only tilt as far forward as you can with a straight back to avoid rounding the lower back. Keep you arms straight and locked
Upper body only: straight legs, tilt from 11 to 1 o-clock, keeping arms locked
“Finish / arms only”: Start at the 1 o-clock position, pull arms to sternum, elbows close to the body. Once the handle reaches your sternum drive the arms away again until straight.
I always tried to decompose the movement in my head as follows:
Drive legs (lock that core!) - tilt upper body back - pull arms - return arms - tilt upper body forward - slide (with locked arms) - repeat
Rhythm wise I aimed for 1 part pulling, 2 parts sliding (ie slide back half as fast as the power phase).
21 minutes gives you an average of 175 watts. How close is that to your cycling power?
(Power rowing compared to cycling is an interest of mine, anyone, please email or PM if you have data, thanks)
Assuming you swim run and bike your legs are likely to be fitter than your arms.
Generally, a fit runner will find when he first uses Concept2, his arms suffer most, but so will his quads. A cyclist will not suffer leg wise so much but will find his arms are the weak area.
Swimmers tend to adapt to rowing better than runners or cyclists because they have so much more upper body fitness.
Good or bad technique, rowing will use muscles in new planes of movement, well trained muscles from running cycling or swimming are not well trained muscles at rowing. Rowing will use some muscles which are relatively unused running cycling or swimming.
Because you found some muscles suffered and others did not is only to be expected, even if your technique is appalling.
Concept II has a few videos on their website that should help. When you are initially driving with the legs (at the catch) pretend that your arms are nothing but ropes and your hands are hooks around the oar handle. With this in mind, try the following drills. (1) Just legs - so the back should be fairly upright/leaning slightly forward; (2) legs & back - so the back opens up but only slightly; (3) legs, back, & arms - remember the arms are just ropes until the very end of the stroke - also the arms go back over the knees just as fast as they came in. Good luck!
I learned the true meaning of suffering before I turned 17. 167lbs at the time, pulling a 6:10 2k left me completely shattered.
Are you sure you remember those numbers right? At that weight you were basically a lightweight, and 6:10 would be enough for a podium spot at the indoor world champs in the open lightweight category, let alone the juniors. In juniors that would be about world record pace.
I learned the true meaning of suffering before I turned 17. 167lbs at the time, pulling a 6:10 2k left me completely shattered.
Are you sure you remember those numbers right? At that weight you were basically a lightweight, and 6:10 would be enough for a podium spot at the indoor world champs in the open lightweight category, let alone the juniors. In juniors that would be about world record pace.
That’s what I was thinking…that’s a national team caliber time for LW…one of the best, actually.
Got on again this morning for another 5km.
I think the position of my upper body and not engaging my core was part of the issue.
I still feel nothing in my quads, and when I push with my legs, its kind of a snap back in that there doesn’t feel like a lot of resistance. The one place I DO really notice in my legs is my glutes, top of my ass…its a feeling like I’m doing super low weight, hi rep squats…the muscles there are tightening up like crazy. By 3km I want to hop off and sit on a tennis ball. So I’m not sure if that is a good sign that I am engaging them, or if I am doing something wrong still.
But I then definitely notice that if I keep my core strong, and move my body back from the 1 to 11 position before using the arms, I see the speed pick up. But man is it hard to do that consistently!!! This is reminding me a lot of swimming…a lot of technique to think about!! lol
My 5km time last night was 21:47. This morning was 20:59. I did change the damper setting very slightly this morning, so not sure how that would effect the time. Last night was right on 4 I think, this morning was about 4.5.
