Are Canada’s colours red and white…or orange and white?
Anyone else notice this?
This is well documented on the Penticton FB group, but yes, The kits and jackets are orangish red. I’m apparently pretty lucky (other than the fact that my stuff was shipped to another athlete in a different province, who then thankfully shipped it to me) in that my stuff fits pretty well. The cuffs on the jacket are bizarre (double seem on the sleeve, single seem on the cuff, which lines up with nothing…), but at least mine fits both in the body and in the sleeve, since many got jackets designed for T-Rex with sleeves that were an inch or two short. Haven’t tried my trisuit out in a workout yet, but it fit when i tried it on (went with the LD Supersuit so it’s the tighter fit, and with the foam pad instead of the fleece one). Hopefully Tri Can has a thorough debrief with Project after this year’s championships and tells them to smarten up and find a different manufacturing facility (and maybe overhaul their staff, because communications with them have been atrocious). The quality on the parade kit is not very good (with the exception of the infamous $50 tech shirt, which is actually quite nice), and there’s a lot of inconsistency in the race kits (from what i’ve heard the two pieces are not good, and even on the one pieces, some of the internal seams are rough and poorly sewn leading to chaffing issues…), and yeah, the changing of our country’s colours… Assuming that they stick with Project next year, i suspect people’s experience will be very different…
Well that’s really interesting. Here’s the response I got from Graeme Clarke @ Project when saying my red is orange.
HI Scott,
The colour of the gear is what was chosen as the best colour to represent Canada – the true Canadian red is in fact much more orange than what we have provided. Its just that most people don’t use the correct Canada red.
This is an Australian telling a Canadian that Canadian’s dont know the red of their flag. And when I said this to him, he gave me a different reason for the orange:
Hi Scott,
I’m not telling you your colours – I’m just telling you what we have been informed along the journey.
There are in fact 2 reds used by Canada – 032c and 185. I don’t have the history in front of me – as I’m not in the office – but I will forward this to you on Monday so you can understand the history and direction we have taken as instructed by Triathlon Canada.
As you work in the industry you will be aware that it is impossible to reproduce the same PMS colour across different fabrics as opposed to paper due to different absorption rates and reflection levels in varying light. I will update you Monday as to the PMS colour we used on the designs.
Enjoy your weekend.
*Kind Regards, *
Graeme Clarke
Managing Director
**
Mobile: +61 418 382 956
I never got the promised email from him.
Can you post photos of the kit, I’m interested in what it looks like, since I’m a Canadian living in the US. So it sounds like Triathlon Canada sent them colors to choose from, and they ended up choosing the orange one?
Yes i got the same impression, however keep in mind that it could also be a manufacturing issue. Just because you say you want “X” using the various methods of quantifying a colour, doesnt mean the machines are calibrated properly. I suspect its a combination of both as I cannot see TriCan choosing this colour to go with. The REAL fail is that no one seems to have asked for samples first. Ive asked if they did, and no one responds.
Ive tried taking pictures but it doesnt come off as orange as what it is. It is Netherlands orange.
It’s not quite dutch orange, but it’s on the orange spectrum of red… They may have sent the correct color specs to China, but given the issues with quality control experienced on the garments themselves, colour aside, it’s unlikely that after getting proofs they went back and asked them to fix it… Some of the garments feel like they were made in the same facilities that make the knock off versions of real items… and have that cheap feel. fortunately my race suit appears pretty good, but the casual shorts feel cheap, and the construction on the jacket feels like a knock off (my brother has ordered knock off kits from China before, and they have a similar feel)…
Based on the quality control issues you mention, I think its safe to assume not all the jerseys will be exactly the same colour of “red”. My company sells flags and events tents and we use the exact same process for printing. As sublimation machines go through their printing process, they need to be re-calibrated. Mine is definitely Dutch Orange.
Is this the 2017 kit?
I can’t tell well enough from that pic. I remember seeing a few people wearing them at the race, but they didn’t particularly stand out to me as being orange. Looks somewhat orange-ish though. Hard to tell for sure without anything really red to compare to. The Ceepo there looks to be a real red. The kit there is definitely more orange than that.
According to the Government Canada site, either 185 OR 032 are the correct red.
In my past life as a printer, I always saw the CMYK interpretation of that (100M 100Y) as a true red, if a bit orangey. When someone asked for a “red” I would add some cyan to it (or pick a different PMS), but apparently the archived Government of Canada site breaks down 032 and 185 differently.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120728214522/http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/pt-te.nsf/eng/00132.html
Two colours. The flag symbol appears in FIP red. The letters appear in black on items with white or light backgrounds, or in reverse white on items with black or dark backgrounds. FIP red may be reproduced using Pantone 185 (a four-colour process mix of 91 percent magenta and 76 percent yellow) or Pantone 032 (a four-colour process mix of 91 percent magenta and 87 percent yellow). The RGB (red-green-blue) value for FIP red is 255-0-0, and the hexadecimal value is #FF0000.
(those CMYK values both skew toward pink, not orange)
Then again, on the updated Canada.ca site, it lists 032 as 100M 100Y:
https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/government-communications/federal-identity-program/technical-specifications/official-symbols/colour-values.html
Or on another page, it lists 032 as 100M 100Y and carries on a bit more in depth:
https://web.archive.org/web/20081220170248/http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/symbl/df11-eng.cfm
Interestingly:
When reproducing the flag red at 100%, the closest colour from the pantone colour specifier is PMS032. When the flag red is used to reproduce screens, it is advisable to take PMS485 as this one maintains the integrity of the orange colour in the flag.
When printing in four colour process, the proper mixture is 100% yellow and 100% magenta.
So basically even the Government of Canada doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing. I don’t blame them for getting mixed messaging if they were trying to follow.
That said, if I were the printer in this case, I would have stuck with 100M 100Y. There is way less to go wrong.
Geodee,
First off- that looks pretty darned orange, and I know it’s hard to show the difference in a simple jpeg. Im sure in person, that is orange.
And as a printer then, you know the RIGHT way to do it is to get it approved by the customer- regardless of what the codes are. This does not appear to have been done as I have asked several times and no one will acknowledge they saw it in advance and approved it.
The government is very clear. The only caveat is the material you are printing on. From the government standards website…
The colours 0/100/100/0 in the CMYK process, PMS 032 (flag red 100%), or PMS 485 (used for screens) in the Pantone colour specifier can be used when reproducing the flag.*** For the Federal Identity Program, the red tone of the standard flag has an RGB value of 255–0–0 (web hexadecimal #FF0000).**** In 1984, the National Flag of Canada Manufacturing Standards Act was passed to unify the manufacturing standards for flags used in both indoor and outdoor conditions.*Flag of Canada
And as a printer then, you know the RIGHT way to do it is to get it approved by the customer- regardless of what the codes are. This does not appear to have been done as I have asked several times and no one will acknowledge they saw it in advance and approved it.
I know the right way, I just didn’t have clients who wanted to pay to have it the right way. At least not the first time around—there always seems to be a budget to reprint though! 
Yeah, regardless of the above, they definitely should have had an approval. The printer should have compared swatches before it even got to that point too.
Exactly haha. And given this isnt TriCan’s first time at this, they should have known to look at it first.
That is indeed the kit. compared to the red on the frame, that gives a pretty good example of the orangeness…
I wouldn’t doubt if the first proofs that Tri can got looked more red, but then as they have gone through all of the runs, never re-calibrating equipment for consistency…
I have asked them several times, TriCan has not confirmed they asked for proofs.
I have the project gear from Chicago and it looks and fits great, even with all the crap around the ordering, price etc I was expecting some fantastic quality items and its a huge fail.
There is no way someone approved these colours and quality.
If I saw these on a shelf on clearance I would not buy them, my 6 year old has better sewing skills and knows what red looks like.
I like the Canada 150 on the back of the bike jacket, too back they couldn’t actually use the Canadian colours of red and white with some black
Go team Netherlands’
That exactly what thought. My company deals with printing on event tents and flags etc. I told him I would NEVER try to pass this off to a customer as acceptable. I am asking for a replacement or a refund.
I have the project gear from Chicago and it looks and fits great, even with all the crap around the ordering, price etc I was expecting some fantastic quality items and its a huge fail.
There is no way someone approved these colours and quality.
If I saw these on a shelf on clearance I would not buy them, my 6 year old has better sewing skills and knows what red looks like.
I like the Canada 150 on the back of the bike jacket, too back they couldn’t actually use the Canadian colours of red and white with some black
Go team Netherlands’
Yeah totally agree the quality is very poor!!! Did a 30k ride with my tri shorts and taint was rubbed raw from the stitching and fleece chamois is a tiny little patch, f-ing joke!!! Whoever from TriCan ordered this crap obviously doesn’t race!!! I still question why TriCan ordered from an Australian supplier when we have Canadian suppliers like Louis Garneau and Sugoi??? Emailed TriCan regarding this but no reply, big surprise!!!
It’s a bidding process for the contract as supplier, and Project won. Not sure whether this was because other companies didn’t bid, or their bids were less appealing to Tri Can (not sure what the bid criteria were)… I’ve raced with fleece chamois before (my kit from Du worlds in 2006 was Orca, with a fleece chamois), but I wouldn’t have gone with that option for a LD tri… They did offer the long distance suits, which had a foam chamois. they were $15-20 more than the standard suits. I haven’t tried mine out in training yet. but I did get the LD Super Suit, and have the foam chamois. From appearances it’s a bit thicker than the one in my Champ system kit from 2013, or from a pair of team shorts I got from Pactimo this year (which I have raced in several times this season). They should have made the differences between the regular and long distance kits more explicit. I know many people in the Du/Aquathlon who just went with the standard kit, since they weren’t doing an LD race, not realizing the difference in chamois material… I agree the quality of the garments (parade kit especially) is pretty disappointing. To Tri Can’s defense though, Project was used the last two years without many of the same issues, and the quality of kit was much better from what I’ve heard… so Project likely switched the manufacturing facility they used this year, to somewhere far inferior (but likley cheaper to produce). I suspect that given that the contract with Tri Can is until 2020, in debriefs this year, they will be told to either step up their game, or that the contract would be cancelled.
I knew the shorts came with a fleece chamois and have raced in other shorts with fleece chamois with no issues. The issue is more the poor stitching in the crotch, ouch!!! I can’t and won’t be using these shorts for the race, $85 piece of crap!!!
Did you get the two piece? I’ve heard those were crap… I’ve head a few people mention shitty seam work on the inside of their kits. Mine doesn’t look too bad, but I’ll know once I test it out on a ride… If you’re planning to sub out shorts for the race, make sure they’re plain shorts (anything with big logos for sure will not be allowed). They still may not let you race in other shorts (or wear other shorts underneath the team shorts if they don’t let you race in plain shorts, it’s not ideal, but I did that one season when our team (not tri can, but sponsor team) one pieces showed up with out a chamois at all).
Yes I have the 2 piece as I don’t like one piece suits.