At IM 70.3 Switzerland this was introduced this year. Previously it was AG wave start each wave starting as a mass start.
This year rolling within each AG with self seeding, 4 at the time with approximately 5s intervals.
As FOP swimmer I thought it is going to be a total cluster f**k, since basically the entire course was filled with swimmers (we were the last AG). I was surprised it didnt actually feel that bad during the swim, even though I did catch up with the previous wave some 300m into the swim instead of closer to 1k. Maybe it was more nicely spread out.
However, my time was more than 2 minutes slower than last year and by more than a minute my slowest ever. Based on pool times, this should not be the case, so somehow this constant passing made me settle for a slower pace or something…
Any similar experiences? Does such start make the swim more comfy if you are MOP or BOP ?
This swim start format was used at Hawaii 70.3 earlier this month after previously advertising a rolling start. I’m a BOP swimmer and a FOP cyclist. I didn’t like the overtaking waves of swimmers behind me, but the bike wasn’t much different than what I deal with during the regular rolling start.
I don’t really see the advantage in doing a rolling start within age groups versus one big rolling start that includes everyone but having done both on more than one occasion each, I’ve found them both preferable to a mass start. I’m MOP overall, with the swim being my weakest discipline.
I don’t know about the swim, but that race is on my Swiss ‘to-do’ list. I’ve checked off Powerman Zofingen and IM Zurich. I doubt I’ll be able to run up those steps all the way, but I will try.
Rolling start within Age Group waves? Yikes. I can understand why, but doesn’t seem to make sense.
Why? I can’t think of any good reason. You can’t race someone “first to the line” if they start 5 minutes ahead or behind me and you’d still have to deal w/ BOP swimming in the AGs that start ahead of you. Seems like a worst of both worlds.
Rolling starts based just off swim times are much better.
This makes much more sense to be swimming with people close to your own speed.
The reason for any rolling start is safety, if its within an AG or based off swim time… is one more safe then the other? Absolutely. I didn’t say i agree with a rolling start within AGs I just said i understand why they would over a traditional wave start.
And lets be serious here. There really isn’t much “racing” going on in 70.3. There may be in the upper % but in reality that type of racing doesn’t exist. Its very apparent that IM doesnt really care about anything outside # of participants so lets get prepared to see much more rolling starts. You do what you do and it will place you where it does.
Rolling start within Age Group waves? Yikes. I can understand why, but doesn’t seem to make sense.
Why? I can’t think of any good reason. You can’t race someone “first to the line” if they start 5 minutes ahead or behind me and you’d still have to deal w/ BOP swimming in the AGs that start ahead of you. Seems like a worst of both worlds.
Rolling starts based just off swim times are much better.
This makes much more sense to be swimming with people close to your own speed.
I think the reason is (pure speculation), they wanted a rolling start, but the swim entry is quite tight and there is not really enough space for people to arrange themselves for a rolling start with the total number of athletes (2600 ?).
To me it is also worst of both worlds, but it was not as bad as I feared, except the time of course.
I don’t know about the swim, but that race is on my Swiss ‘to-do’ list. I’ve checked off Powerman Zofingen and IM Zurich. I doubt I’ll be able to run up those steps all the way, but I will try.
I like the race, the area is very nice, its located in a ice-hockey venue, so locker rooms etc. are available, it is “downtown”, there is even a zoo next door for kids. Bike course is nice and tough and run goes through town.
Those stairs are not that long, but better be careful in them, if not falling on your face, you can certainly cramp up pretty easy with such change in the middle of the run.
So I just had a look at the pro times and they are not really the same as last year. Kind of a mixed bag really, looks like the lead men were only about 30 or so seconds slower than last year, and then you have Ryf who won both years races and went 2 minutes slower than last year in the swim.
So some or most of your time differential could just be from a slower(or longer)course. That is why before you ever do any comparisons, you need to go back and check the winning swims in the pro divisions. They are the best indicator of what went on in the water that particular day…Then you can overlay that onto your times and have a decent base in which to make comparisons now…
Rolling starts based just off swim times are much better.
I cannot agree more.
Rolling starts make for slow, slow times if you are medium to fast swimmer.
And rolling swim starts and “time trial” swim starts are also fundamentally unsafe.
Why are they unsafe?
Rather then having a seeded or self-seeded swim start (one that is seeded by swim ability of course), the rolling start has much faster swimmers starting behind many many groups of much slower swimmers. The result? The slower swimmers are getting swum over (often literally swum OVER) by much faster swimmers during the entire swim leg. Crazy and totally unsafe.
I really like the several-second rolling wave starts.
I’m a MOP swimmer, so I’m constantly dealing with the giant pack of similar-speeded swimmers in every race that make it annoyingly difficult to swim at full pace since I’m constantly getting boxed in or pushed to the sides (I’m perfectly fine at OWS - I’m just not fast enough to outpace 90% of the field on the swim to get totally free until late.) Having the rolling sendoffs every 5sec greatly reduces that huge MOP mass of bodies that are all swimming around 1:45-1:55/100m in OWS, which is a really, really big group of guys. I don’t mind swimming with/around bodies - it’s getting locked into a giant mass of bodies that you literally can’t move at pace through, for 100+m that is seriously annoying.
I however could see how a typical FOP or FFOP swimmer would be annoyed at this format though, as they obviously will have a lot more people to swim through, and also lose the obvious front group of good swimmers to draft off of the entire way, as well as the fun of dropping 90% of the field in the first 200m. Def less clear water for the fishies as a result.
Rolling starts based just off swim times are much better.
I cannot agree more.
Rolling starts make for slow, slow times if you are medium to fast swimmer.
And rolling swim starts and “time trial” swim starts are also fundamentally unsafe.
Why are they unsafe?
Rather then having a seeded or self-seeded swim start (one that is seeded by swim ability of course), the rolling start has much faster swimmers starting behind many many groups of much slower swimmers. The result? The slower swimmers are getting swum over (often literally swum OVER) by much faster swimmers during the entire swim leg. Crazy and totally unsafe.
Sorry, I’m probably being thick…
But for example, I believe the Tremblant 70.3 this coming weekend is an ‘all age group rolling start’ (as stated in the race guide). Doesn’t that mean that you do in fact seed yourself based on ability, thus you’d be behind the faster swimmers?
I have no idea how Wanda / WTC does it. If they offer a true swim ability seeded start (even if it is a rolling start), that is awesome. But I doubt that they do that.
I think there’s some inconsistencies in the terminology being used.
I agree that a free-for-all rolling start could result in what you’re talking about, but I’ve never seen a time-trial or rolling start where that’s been the case. They’ve all been a self-seeded fastest enter the water first and slowest enter last. My experience is that this generally works pretty well and is generally my preference. I’ve been at some races where there’s an “elite mass start” followed by a swim speed seeded TT start.
The idea of ordering the rolling or TT by any method other than swim time (whether this is by AG or date of registration or random or something else) seems to me to have no positives.
The alternatives being a mass start (all males start at once or everyone starts at one depending on the size of the race) or an wave start (all M40-44 start together, then 5 minutes later all M45-49 start then…).