appears that kate major got penalised for someone giving her split times. how ridiculous is that???
bryan rhodes got penalised for getting on his bike too early!!!
seems like there’s some overzealous officials out there. im not sure how giving a split time really qualifies as ‘outside assistance’.
I like the idea of being more opressive with penalties… I hope they translate the samething for all IM circuit…
fuck that is lame.
It looked like 90% of the pros had slashes across their numbers at T2. Raynard reports getting a penalty when Norman passed hm on a downhill when they were both going over 60 km/hr and not putting on the brakes to fall back “in time”
Is it really a penalty to give pros splits? i do it for everyone when I get the chance.
Maybe the officials are considering it to be “outside assistance”??? IMW last month had a lot of penalties for “outside assistance”, but I understood they were for running/biking alongside someone.
Is there are referee’s report online where fulla and Francois are finding these penalties (or non-penalties in Olaf’s case)?
Rob
More penalties is a good thing…
Why shouldn’t Rhodes get a penalty. If he got on his bike before the mount line he broke the rules. Isn’t that one of things they teach you in kindergarten triathlon. Are you suggesting we should all mount our bikes right off our the rack? That would make for a home video when the 60-70 minute swimmers try to exit together. I’m laughing just thinking about the carnage…
Cam Brown’s penalty makes me laugh too. He said he got a drafting penalty for putting his head down and riding up behind someone on a downhill. Then mentioned he didn’t think it was appropriate to get a drafting penalty on a downhill. Huh? I’ve heard that said of uphills, but now downhills too. I suppose flats should be excluded as well, eh? Cam’s sounds like a perfect drafting call that was well earned.
Rhodes got on his bike before the “mount” line. He was the only one in the entire field (pro and AG) to do so. Both this rule and the “receiving splits” rules are made very clear to the pros at the pro meeting at IMH, and I assume at other events. They know that someone giving them splits can only be stationary while doing so, not riding along side in a car or on a bike.
“I really don’t see how giving someone split times could be outside assistance!”
If this is an individual sport, and you have someone doing part of your job for you, that makes for one less thing you have to concern yourself with, and is therefore assisting you in your race. I’m not sure of the rule, but I don’t really have much problem seeing this as outside assistance in this type of event. The whole point is that you’re supposed to be able to pace yourself correctly on your own.
Well, I guess the official would have to have made the determination that this was purposeful. I agree that this would probably be a difficult penalty to assess accurately, especially if there were lot’s of people yelling out splits, but if it’s a recognized coach or the husband or wife of a competitor, i could see how this would be in conflict with the spirit of the event.
I heard on Ironmanlive.com (Paul Huddle) that Marc Herremans got a drafting penality…This one must be the best one!!!
**IMW last month had a lot of penalties for “outside assistance”, but I understood they were for running/biking alongside someone. **
What, as a pacer?
Otherwise, I don’t see how it would be outside assistance. Or at least, no more than spectator cheering.
I agree with you, even if it was rhetorical and not addressed to me. This is a tough type of penalty to call since the crowd is such a part of the sport.
**IMW last month had a lot of penalties for “outside assistance”, but I understood they were for running/biking alongside someone. **
What, as a pacer?
Otherwise, I don’t see how it would be outside assistance. Or at least, no more than spectator cheering.
How about Normann having the pace car with the clock in front the whole bike and run portion??? Is this pacing??
“pacer”? Probably not or at least not intended as such. There’s a very funny account of “outside assistance” on trinewbies (http://www.trinewbies.com/phorum2/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=32504&posts=20). Worth reading!
Rob
edit: devashish paul’s post at http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=84780;search_string=outside%20assistance;#84780 is also worth looking at.
im not sure how far bryan got on his bike before the mount line, ill ask him when he’s back here training (i live where he lives), but from what i can gather he was pretty pissed about it.
also i fail to see how SOMEONE ELSE’s actions which you havent participated in can be deemed as outside assistance. i mean someone yells out a split time and you didnt ask for it, why should someone else’s actions (who you most probably dont know) affect your race?
some of the penalties given seem to be pretty pedantic and pathetic if you ask me.
you are assuming that someone just yelled out splits from the sideline and taht in itself is not outside assistance as it is something that is available to all competitors if that person on the sidelines cares to call it out for everyone.
In this situation though, for it to be deemed outside assistance it had to be more than just a casual observer calling out splits. For all we know someone had to come out of the crowd and run along side the competitor giving updates and do so for more than 100 yards, that is outside assistance.
For us observing just a results list and/or a penalty list we do not see the exact lead up to what was going on to warrent the penalty, but I can assume that there was more to it than just someone yelling out “you’re in 3rd place”.
OTOH, sounds like Olaf got the shaft if Francios account is true.
Mike is, of course, correct. In fact, the rules specifically allow transmission of splits:
“3.4d Unauthorized Assistance. No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form, including food, drink, equipment, support, pacing, a replacement bicycle or bicycle parts, unless an express exception has been granted and approved, in writing, by USA Triathlon. The receipt of information regarding the progress, split times, or location of other competitors on the race course shall not be considered the acceptance of unauthorized assistance.”
Unauthorized assistance on the run is typically pacing, which we define as a nonparticipant staying alongside an athlete for longer than 15 seconds.
David Schoonmaker
USAT Mid-Atlantic Region officials coordinator
This is quite interesting.
The last 2 years the officiating seems (I was not there!!) to have had a significant impact on the race. IMHO this is wrong - either way. In 2003 there weree seemingly obvious errors of overlooking penalties. 2004 it appears they swung the other way.
The best officiating should be invisible 90% of the time and yet enforce the intent and spirit of the rules. Officiating should never become a focus of the event. Note, I am an advocate of very strict enforcement particularly of drafting.
I’m not sure what is going on with the IMH officiating. It seems they may be trying to make some sort of “statement” or maybe the athletes need a “statement.” Something just seems a bit out of wack over the past two years.
Re: Kate Major
As has been suggested by previous posters, my understanding is that Kate was handed the penalty as a result of her sister riding beside her (pacing) and handing her splits. It would appear that it was the pacing factor that was the genesis of the penalty not the splits.
This is the first that I have ever heard about this - someone actually getting a penalty for being given splits. I would like to learn more about this, because it is standard practice for supporters, coaches, friends, family members and even complete strangers to bark out splits to you of how far ahead/behind such-and-such is. It seems rather absurd, but to a certain degree, I am not surprised. Triathlon as a sport is way to complex for it’s own good. If only it was about swim/bike/run and the fastest across the line wins.